Saints Row Wiki

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Saints Row Wiki
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Saints Row Wiki

This page lists the Discussion policies of the Saints Row Wiki. The majority of this page covers things which should be common sense, but are explained here for reference.

See Category:Saints Row Wiki for other policies and guidelines.
  • These pages document how things are currently done on the Saints Row Wiki.
  • Some are common sense, while others are responses to specific situations.
  • Where possible, examples and reasoning is included.
  • If there is anything you do not understand, use the talk page.
  • If there are changes you would like to propose, use the talk page.
  • No-one is expected to memorise everything before their first edit.
  • No-one will be punished for not knowing these guidelines.
  • New editors should be linked to policies when relevant, so that they can improve.
  • Once informed of a guideline, users are required to follow that guideline.
  • Most guidelines are common sense, so most users will never need to be linked here.


Were you looking for Category:Active Discussions?


Where should I post...
...a reply to a message I've received?

Reply directly below that message.
Always keep discussions in the same place.

...a reply to an existing discussion?

Continue the discussion on the same page.
Many existing discussions are listed on Active Discussions.

...about improving a specific article?

Use the Talk page of that article.

...about the content of an article?

Use the Talk page of that article.

...about improving articles in general?

The Saints Row Wiki:To-do list, or a sub-list.

...a question or comment about something specific?

Use the Talk page of whatever page you have a question about.

...a general question about the game?

Go to Saints Row Wiki:Forums and make a post.

...a general question about the wiki?

Go to Forum:Saints Row Wiki and make a post.

...a question about a specific user's edit?

Go to their User talk page and post there.

...about something that happened in the chat?

In the chat. The chat rules are very clear that "Issues from inside the chat are not to be brought outside the chat."

...opinions/experiences about the game?

Make a Forum post

...an interview/article/review/other website?

Make a Forum post

...glitches/bugs/tricks I've found?

Make a Forum post

...a story I wrote about Saints Row?

http://saintsrowfanfiction.wikia.com

...my theories about the game?

http://saintsrowfanfiction.wikia.com

...my wishlist for future games?

http://saintsrowfanfiction.wikia.com

...I found bigfoot, etc?

http://saintsrowfanfiction.wikia.com

...about my life?

Try facebook, livejournal, myspace?

...anything else unrelated to Saints Row?

Anywhere else other than the Saints Row wiki.

If you're unsure, just make a Forum post


General[]

Use common sense. Each time common sense is ignored, items will be added to this page.

  • Everything is open for discussion, everyone is allowed to ask questions.
  • You do not have to ask permission, but always check for existing discussions.
  • No discussion is "too old" to continue.
  • Healthy debate is encouraged, arguing is not.
  • Do not remove any discussions or comments.

Basics[]

  • This is the English language Saints Row Wiki, therefore content and discussions must be in English.
  • New messages belong at the bottom of the page.
  • Discussions should remain in one place, so they can be followed easily.
    • If you wish to reply to someone, do so at the same place as the original comment.
    • Never reply on someone's talk page to a comment they left elsewhere.
  • Replies belong below the comment you are replying to.
    • Use Indents (:) to denote replies, indent one level deeper than the parent comment.
  • You do not have to ask permission to ask a question. Simply ask the question instead of asking if you can ask a question.
  • Do not use unnecessary formatting such as tables or templates where basic text would suffice.

Signatures[]

  • Talk page comments must be signed using ~~~~ to automatically add a signature.
  • Custom signatures must be recognisably similar to the user's actual username.
    • For instance, a user named "TheBob" may sign their comments as "Bob" - with a link to "User:TheBob" - but may not as sign as "Alex", because that would cause confusion, defeating the purpose of signing posts, and obscuring the origin of the comment.
  • Custom signatures must always link to the user's userpage.
  • Do not use unnecessary formatting in signatures.

If someone has forgotten to sign their comment, use {{subst:unsigned}} to add a signature on a talk page, or {{subst:unsigned|1}} to add a signature on a forum. This only works if they were the last one to edit the page.

Locations[]

There are a variety of places where discussions may occur:

Edit Summaries[]

Edit Summaries are not a valid place for a discussion to occur, they are for summarising your edit.

While users are expected to read Edit Summaries if they want information about an edit, messages directed at other users do not belong in Edit Summaries].

See Saints Row Wiki:Edit Summaries for more about how to use Edit Summaries.

Talk pages[]

Talk pages are the primary location where discussions about article content should occur.

This way, anyone wanting to discuss the content of the article knows exactly where to look. If questions about article content are asked on the forum, or worse, on a specific user's talk page, it will be quite difficult to others to find and contribute to in the future.

Forum posts[]

The forum is typically for more general discussions about playing the game, rather than improving articles.

Where appropriate, the information given in a forum answer should also be integrated into a related article, so that the answer is more readily available for others in future.

Forum posts are just another form of talk page, as always, common sense applies in addition to everything else that applies to talk pages.

  • It is common sense that you should not make multiple posts about the same topic.
  • It is common sense that questions about improving articles belong on that article's talk page.

User talk pages[]

User talk pages are for discussing something directly with another user, which usually means discussing something which is specific to that user, such as their contributions, or a direct question which is not relevant anywhere else. If it is relevant to others, then it should be elsewhere. Generally, other users should not be replying to questions asked on a user talk page, unless it's a question that doesn't belong on the user talk page to begin with.

  • Keep conversations together.
  • Do not "reply" by posting on the other users User talk page. This is not how communicating on the internet has ever worked.
    • When replying to an email, you click "reply" to send a reply to that email, you do not click "compose" to send them a new email as a reply.
    • When replying on a forum, you post in that thread, you do not start a new thread saying "in reply to this thread"
    • On chatting on IRC, private messages are shown in the same window, there is not a "to" and "from" window.
    • When speaking on the telephone, you do not hang up and call again each time the other person says something.
  • After leaving a message on a User talk page, follow the page to get notifications of replies, and unfollow when you're finished with the conversation. You can also opt to receive an email notification in your preferences.
  • If you are replying on your User talk page, do not leave them a message on their User talk page notifying them that you have replied. It is not your responsibility to ensure they get the reply, it is that user's responsibility to ensure that they get the reply, by "following" the discussion and opting to receive email notifications.
  • If you have left a reply, but have not received an expected reply, it is acceptable to contact them on their User talk page asking them to respond on your User talk page.
  • In additional to these policies, users are permitted to set their own reasonable User talk page policies. Personal user talk page policies do not override wiki policies.

Polls[]

  • While polls exist on various subjects, they are supplemental to discussions.
  • Although actions may be taken as the result of polls in addition to discussions, the result of polls does not dictate policy.
  • In other words: poll results may or may not matter. If you want to ensure that your opinion matters, post a comment as well.

Threads[]

Indents (:) denote which comment you are replying to, and should be one level deeper than the comment you are addressing.

  • Reply directly below the comment you are replying to
  • Indent one level deeper than the comment you are replying to
Simple Example
First Comment
:Second comment: Reply to first comment
::Third comment: Reply to second comment
:Fourth comment: Reply to first comment

The fourth comment's indent is reset because it is replying to the first comment, not either of the others.

Indents do not denote "This is a new comment". If replying to someone earlier in the thread, do not address your comment to unrelated comments, reply within the thread with the correct indentation level

This is how threaded discussions have worked for decades, even twitter has threads!

If there are multiple discussions on a talk page, then they are separated into sections, if you want to reply to one of the them, you reply in that section, not at the bottom of the page. All talk pages on all wikis work this way, and indent threading works exactly the same way.

Since some new users may have only been exposed to single level comment sections, here's an advanced example:

Advanced Example
First Comment
:Second comment: Reply to first comment
::Third comment: Reply to second comment
:::Sixth comment: Reply to third comment
::Fifth comment: Reply to second comment
:Fourth comment: Reply to first comment

Let's break it down for each comment:


First Comment

Second comment: Reply to first comment

The third comment is a reply to the second comment, so it is indented with two colons First Comment

Second comment: Reply to first comment
Third comment: Reply to second comment

The fourth comment is a reply to the first comment, not the second or third comments, so it is indented with one colon First Comment

Second comment: Reply to first comment
Third comment: Reply to second comment
Fourth comment: Reply to first comment

The fifth comment is a reply to the second comment, so it is placed within that thread, above the fourth comment, and indented with two colons First Comment

Second comment: Reply to first comment
Third comment: Reply to second comment
Fifth comment: Reply to second comment
Fourth comment: Reply to first comment

<nowiki>The sixth comment is a reply to the third comment, so it is placed within that thread, above the fourth and fifth comments, and indented with three colons<nowiki> First Comment

Second comment: Reply to first comment
Third comment: Reply to second comment
Sixth comment: Reply to third comment
Fifth comment: Reply to second comment
Fourth comment: Reply to first comment

See also: Wikipedia's Help:Talk_pages#Indentation.

Duplicates[]

  • Do not split discussions.
  • If there is an existing discussion, reply to it.
  • Do not leave duplicate messages.
  • Leaving duplicate messages may cause multiple simultaneous conversations about the same topic. It is more constructive to have a single conversation for a topic.
  • If a discussion is related to multiple topics, or if you wish to bring attention to a message which has not received a reply after several days, the second message should link to the original location, and encourage replies be left at the original location.

An exception to this is when making a forum post about something which has previously been discussed elsewhere. When doing this, the original discussion should be mentioned, and linked.

Deleting[]

  • Discussions, comments, and messages left in the correct place should never be deleted. (Except vandalism, see below.)
    • If you posted something and realised it was wrong, leave a note below it indicating the updated information.
    • The reason behind this is that other users may think something similar, so posting that you've realised you were wrong may help other users, or may stop the same thing being posted again.
    • If you leave a message asking a question, and find the answer yourself, remember to post the answer your own questions for the benefit of others.
  • Duplicate messages should be deleted immediately, with a clear note in the edit summary that it was a duplicate message.
  • Comments left in the wrong place may be deleted, such as within an article or otherwise not in the correct location.

Editing[]

  • Minor edits to your own comments is allowed, removing them is not.
  • There is generally no need to edit a previous comment, additional comments should be left below and signed separately.
  • However, in line clarifications are permitted if it makes more sense than a new comment.
  • Editing the content of other people's comments is not permitted.
    • If you think that someone else has made a typo, then feel free to mention the typo in your own comment, but do not edit someone else's comment.
    • An obvious exception to this rule is if there is a maintenance issue which must be fixed, such as a red link.
    • An obvious exception to this rule is formatting, such as indenting the comment correctly.

Archiving[]

  • Old discussions on long talk pages may be periodically archived.
  • Anyone may archive a discussion, but should contact an admin if they are unsure.
  • Archiving is performed by renaming/moving the page to a subpage, and leaving a link to the archive on the talk page.
    • Do not copy/paste, this is wrong as the edit history should also be moved.
  • For example Talk:Stores should be moved to Talk:Stores/1
  • Only concluded discussions should be moved to archives, active and unaddressed discussions should remain on the main talk page.
    • However, if someone has something to add to a previous discussion, they are welcome to add it to the archived talk page.

Debates[]

  • Learn the difference between a debate and an argument.
    • While the meanings can be similar, the word "argument" is used here to imply a negative slant.
    • Debating is when you provide reasons for your position, and reasons against the opponents position.
    • Arguing is when you contradict the opponents position, without giving an reasons or invalidating their points.
  • When debating a topic, the best way to further your point is to use logic and examples.
  • People stating their opinions without evidence will likely be ignored.
  • Asking questions and providing evidence about a subject is always welcome.

For more information, watch Monty Python's Argument Clinic

Vandalism[]

See also: Saints Row Wiki:Vandalism and Saints Row Wiki:Civility
  • Most vandalism should be immediately reverted.
    • Do not simply remove the vandalised section, instead revert the page to the version immediately prior to the vandalism, to restore anything which was deleted.
  • If a user has left an inappropriate message, it should generally remain as evidence, unless the user's sole purpose is harassment.
    • This varies on a case-by-case basis.
  • Persistent vandals and users who deliberately ignore talk page guidelines, may have their talk page privileges revoked, and their message removed.

Personal attacks[]

  • Do not make personal attacks of any kind.
  • See the Saints Row Wiki:Civility for related information about what not to do in a discussion.

Apologising[]

  • You shouldn't have to apologise for making an error in an article. Everyone errs, the important thing is to learn from our mistakes.
  • Different cultures treat these things differently. People from countries based on punishment rather than teaching will immediately act apologetic for simple mistakes, rather than thankful for the help, and rarely know how to correctly apologise when one is warranted.
  • When someone contacts you telling you how to do something, you should assume they're trying to help, not critise. Say "Thanks", not "Sorry".
    • However, if you give someone false information in a discussion, it is polite to apologise to them.

Contacting users[]

  • Everyone is welcome to contact users with questions about their edits.
  • If you do not understand something that another user has added to an article, it is best to contact them directly for further information.
  • If you can prove something is wrong in an article, then remove it directly, but if you only suspect something might be wrong and you're not certain, contact the user who added the information and ask them.
  • Even long-term editors can be wrong, and they will often contact other users for more information rather than assume they know everything. No-one knows everything, the best way to learn is to ask questions.
  • Anyone may contact other users with tips on editing, or informing them that they've fixed something from one of their edits.
    • However, please ensure that you are correct when doing so. Giving false information to another user is not welcome.

Proposals[]

  • While everyone is free to add whatever they like, and no-one has to ask permission for anything, there are sometimes discussions on talk pages asking whether it is worth adding something. These particularly occur in cases where the information being added is a lot of work, and the editor just wants to ensure that it is worth their time.
  • If there is an existing discussion about proposed changes, please contribute to that discussion.
  • Mark active talk page discussions with {{discuss}}.
    • If there has been no reply to a marked talk page discussion after one month, you have given ample notice about your proposal, and should carry on as if your proposal has consensus.
    • When there is an open talk page discussion about a topic, do not make changes to the article related to that discussion until discussion has ended. Take part in the discussion instead.
  • If a user has proposed adding something to an article, it's polite to allow them to add it themselves.
    • Likewise, it's polite to let other editors know if you will not be doing something you have previously indicated you would do, as they may have been waiting on you to complete a task.
  • If a user has proposed something, but has not edited in over a month, it can be assumed they won't be adding that information after all.
    • If you have information about the same subject, you can either wait for them to add their contribution before combining your information, or you can give them the information on the talk page for them to use.
    • Technically, talk page "ideas" are still contributions to the wiki licensed for use by others. When adding information to an article that has been first added to the talk page, it is best to mention the talk page in the edit summary, in order to correctly attribute the source.

This same policy also covers recently uploaded files and Image Requests which users are actively working on - if somebody is obviously working on a series of Image Requests, or has recently uploaded files, it is polite to allow them the chance to complete the Image Requests themselves, or to add the images to articles themselves.

On-topic[]

Use common sense and stick to the topic, and related topics.

While it's natural that a discussion may drift to related issues, replies should be remain related to the topic in some form.

There is no purpose in replying to an existing discussion with something that has nothing to do with that discussion. If you wish to discuss a different topic, create a new section, or a new thread rather than derailing the current discussion.

Making an off-topic comment does not contribute to the discussion, so off-topic replies may be moved to keep the discussion tidy.

Posting nonsense and quoting memes is not constructive and may result in a block.

Moderator comments[]

It is common sense that Moderator comments are excluded from the "on-topic" requirement, such as when mentioning a policy issue.

Claiming a moderation comment is "off-topic" or "derailing the discussion" is in bad faith, so may be considered trolling and dealt with as such.

Subjects[]

A poll was held on the topic of what subjects should be allowed. The poll was specifically about what was allowed in blog posts, as blog posts were the most unregulated area, but this applies to the entire wiki.

The options were:

  • Allow everyone to post anything about any subject, no rules about content.
  • Allow only active contributors to post blogs, and allow them to post about any subject, still no rules about content.
  • Allow everyone to post blogs, but only allow factual game-related content, to avoid confusion.

The poll was open for 4 months, to both anon and registered users. The result was 22 votes for one options, and 0 votes for the others. The winner was :"delete false information, and anything not directly related to the games in the Saints Row series. This is in order to avoid confusion about what is or is not in the game."

Based on the poll result, the new subject policy is:

Subjects which are allowed
  • News
  • Reviews
  • Complaints
  • Game experiences
  • Glitches
  • Tips
  • Asking for help
  • Asking questions about the game
  • Posts about anything else which is in the game
  • Posts about playing the game
  • Posts about editing the wiki
Subjects which are not allowed
  • Gibberish
  • Fan fiction
  • Finding friends / multiplayer groups
  • Wild speculation
  • Wishlists
  • Big foot rumours
  • Posts about anything else which is not factually in, or related to, the games
  • Personal posts unrelated to the game or the wiki

For the record, phrasing the post as a question does not side-step the on-topic requirement. For example: Making a post questioning the existence of big foot will still be deleted."Just asking questions" is a stock trolling method that will not be tolerated.

There are several things which are decided on a case by case basis:

Theories

There are many things which are not outright stated by the game, so it may be useful to allow some theories. However, the theory "I have a theory there is a bigfoot" will obviously be deleted. Theories provide an explanatory framework for observations, so should have some basis in fact.

Modifications

Modifying the game is sometimes very useful to explore what is already in the game. As with the normal policy about images of modified games, they are allowed in order to show things which are already in the game, but can not be seen.

For instance, there are disabled cheats to allow changing the player character from The Protagonist to other characters, like Mr Wong - enabling these cheats is a great way to get high quality pictures of various characters, so these are definitely allowed. But obviously a screenshot showing Mr Wong pushing Dane Vogel out the window would be confusing, and not allowed. (I'm fairly sure you can't make Mr Wong through normal customization)

Forum posts, and other conversations, about modding are allowed, so long as it's clear that the content is modded, and not present in the normal game.

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