Saints Row Wiki

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Saints Row Wiki
Saints Row Wiki

The Saints Row Wiki is a comprehensive player-made information archive about the Saints Row video game series.

1,284 articles are constantly being updated. There is still plenty to do, so please contribute in any way you can.
Everyone can edit, so if you notice something missing or incorrect, just click "Edit" and help improve the wiki!

Since 2007, there have been 435,036 edits across 52,804 total pages by 14,942 editors.

Random Poll
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Random Trivia
Which is the only vehicle with wheel options which cannot have Standard Rims? (Answer)
Random File
Action Node - sweeping.png
Action Node - sweeping.png
Used on
If this is a poor quality image, please upload a replacement.
Randomly chosen from 23757 files on the Saints Row Wiki
Random Dialogue
Worthplaying: "As a company, how does THQ evaluate if a game product is worth moving forward on? A year or two ago, Saints Row Drive-by for PSP was canceled. More recently, the Saints Row Money Shot project for XBLA was going to tie into Saints Row: The Third, but it was also shelved. How do you determine when to forge ahead?"
Danny Bilson: "It's similar to any other entertainment business. We have a group of executives — in core, particularly — who are all gamers who experienced product in the marketplace. You just know, just like any gamer who buys a game, you know what's good and what's not, ideally. In the case of Money Shot, it will be on PSN as a Sony offering, and I'm pretty sure it's free."
— Worthplaying interview with Danny Bilson[3] (from Saints Row: Money Shot)
Random Audio
Burt and Pierce unused Homie conversation.ogg
Burt and Pierce unused Homie conversation (from Homie conversations)
Katie in FUZZ cutscene - close up.jpg

Katie is a character in two cutscenes in Saints Row 2.
She casts Playa as a last-minute replacement on FUZZ after seeing his mug-shot on the News, and is later employed as Dex's secretary, meeting him at the airport as he flees Stilwater.
She is voiced by the actress who provided the voice of Samantha.

Wiki News

  • The Update

    There was supposed to be a final warning 2 weeks before the update took place - there was not one.

    Wikia Staff created a "test" wiki in August, and I highlighted a variety of reasons why the UCP was not prepared for deployment to the Saints Row Wiki. At the time, they had threatened that it was going live within two weeks. Since that "2 weeks" warning went away and never returned, I assumed they were working on fixing the issues I identified.

    But as you can see, a variety of problems are now live here.

    The only reason it doesn't look worse is because I already began fixing a range of upcoming display problems in June.

    I have fixed the vast majority of the things that I can fix, and have annotated the list of issues with what I have fixed, and what is impossible for me to fix.

    Transcluded news posts are supposed to be cut off at 600 characters, so this paragraph shouldn't be visible.
    This has been broken for 6 months now.

    They have picked the worst time to deploy this without warning, and I will not be able to mitigate their problems until at least the weekend. I expect they will send their goon squad leading part of an advancing military formation in to try to fix the problems their way before I have a chance to do it myself.

    As someone who cares about the quality of my work, I am absolutely disgusted by Wikia's lack of interest in the quality of their own work.

    It looks like they have fixed a couple of things, however, here is a list of things which a multimillion dollar corporation with hundreds of employees and billions of pageviews thinks is acceptable:

    (In no particular order, but numbered because there are so many of them)

    1. Uneven italics tags in headings now escape the TOC and make the entire article italic.
      • I would have noticed the entire article was in italics previously. and results show that this was not the case before the update.
    2. The search page now encourages people to create a page named after their search terms.
      • There's no reason to do this, and it will only encourage vandalism.
    3. Advanced Special:Search options are broken.
      • There is nothing I can do to fix this. This is something only Wikia Staff can fix.
      • The default search for "infobox bullets" shows 90 pages, with the first results being category pages.
      • After clicking "Select All" only 1 page is shown. (2 now, including this page.)
      • They've changed something, because these results are no longer the same.
    4. Redirects in Categories are not italicised.
      • I have fixed myself with CSS, because it's too fucking annoying to leave unfixed.
    5. Links to for old revisions of pages which are now redirects, are redirected to the new page instead of displaying the old revision of the page.
    6. On multiple occasions since the update, the Wiki-navigation link to Saints Row Wiki:Templates has randomly changed from "Templates" to "Templates on FANDOM".
    7. Special:ListRedirects is capped at 1000. It used to be capped at 5000.
    8. User pages are now inaccessible: user:452. You can see your own, but everyone else sees "This user has not filled out their profile page yet."
      • This was not broken yesterday. It's a brand new thing they've added to the pile of broken features.
      • They've also hidden the edit dropdown - which is hilarious, because if it was there, purging the page would temporarily show the content of the page.
      • I've side-stepped this myself by modifying the purge script to automatically reload user pages. Because who knows how many months it will be before Wikia Staff get around to fixing it themselves.
      • For 5 days now, the Saints Row Wiki is the ONLY wiki that displays other people's user pages.
      • This was eventually fixed.
    9. The API documentation used to be a single page, so it was easy to search for a term and find all occurrences to learn how the API worked. It is now split into individual pages, so in order to learn, you already have to know what you're looking for, which is discriminatory towards new users, and slows down established users.
      • There is nothing I can do to fix this. This is something only Wikia Staff can fix.
    10. Previews are not wrapped with .WikiaArticle, so are not accurate as some CSS is not applied.
      • When I first started editing this wiki, previews were flawless, and 100% matched the published page. Over the years, Wikia has introduced more and more inconsistencies, and it's really obvious at this point that they couldn't give a fuck about things like accuracy and presentation.
      • I could fix this by rewriting dozens, perhaps hundreds, of CSS rules to account for this, but this wouldn't make them accurate due to other issues.
    11. When you go to Special:Contributions/SomeUsernameThatDoesn'tReallyExist, the Contributions link is for your own IP address.
      • As this is the default behaviour, there is no reason for me to fix this.
    12. DPL "ignorecase=true" does not work correctly
      • There is nothing I can do to fix this. This is something only Wikia Staff can fix.
      • Still broken, it seems like it just uses lowercase instead of ignoring the case
    13. DPL queries containing "|addeditdate=true |ordermethod=created" display all revisions instead of just one revision.
      • There is nothing I can do to fix this. This is something only Wikia Staff can fix.
    14. DPL queries displaying usernames don't work - this effects all previous forum posts.
    15. DPL queries for looking up usernames don't work - my userpage says I've only made 3 forum posts.
      • There is nothing I can do to fix this. This is something only Wikia Staff can fix.
    16. Usernames are missing in page exports, for all edits before the update occurred.
      • There is nothing I can do to fix this. This is something only Wikia Staff can fix.
      • Edits are attributed by ID, but the lack of username makes it much more difficult to read the XML files, especially if you're looking for an edit from a particular user.
      • The fact that usernames are present for edits since the update indicates that this was not intentional. And hints that this is the same cause of the DPL username issues.
      • Deleting and restoring fixes all of the username issues. Should I just delete and restore every single page on the wiki?
      • This issue has been fixed, apparently by a bandaid fix instead of actually populating the actor database, as the other 2 issues caused by this have not been fixed.
    17. Special:DeletedContributions doesn't list anything deleted before the UCP update.
      • There is nothing I can do to fix this. This is something only Wikia Staff can fix.
      • The revisions still exist in the database, and can be seen by viewing the deleted page history itself, and undeleting then redeleting adds it to Special:DeletedContributions. This appears to be exactly the same cause as the other 3 username issues.
    18. deleted revisions of old Blogs are not available to view or restore
      • There is nothing I can do to fix this. This is something only Wikia Staff can fix.
    19. Special:JSPages gives a 500 error.
      • Although I did not cause this, I resolved this myself.
    20. Special:Newwikis no longer exists.
      • This was eventually restored.
    21. WAM is gone.
      • There is nothing I can do to fix this. This is something only Wikia Staff can fix.
      • Yet another feature that Wikia Staff never finished, and just abandoned. WTF actually goes on in their minds? Constantly half-arsing new features, making promises about improvements which never happen, then removing them citing lack of use.
    22. The new version of tabview apparently doesn't keep track of which tab is which, resulting in content being loaded into the wrong tab when switching tabs while the tab is still loading.
      • There is nothing I can do to fix this. This is something only Wikia Staff can fix.
      • I've been using Saints Row Wiki:UnusedFiles for years by quickly switching between tabs to load them all, and have never seen this happen before now.
    23. Someone - who will likely never face consequences for their actions - thought it would be a good idea to try to generate thumbnails for OGG files, OGV files, and PDF files on category pages
      • -> the_result <- obviously, because why would you think that an image thumbnailer could make a thumbnail for a sound file?
      • There is nothing I can do to fix this. This is something only Wikia Staff can fix.
    24. There is no longer a wikifeatures log, so it is impossible to see when features are enabled or disabled.
      • There is nothing I can do to fix this. This is something only Wikia Staff can fix.
    25. Saints Row Wiki:Sandbox/http://deckers.die. All [[Http://deckers.die]] links are rendered as [[1]]. INCLUDING automatically generated DPL lists:
      • There is nothing I can do to fix this. This is something only Wikia Staff can fix.
    26. Category Trees STILL counts ghost pages: Category:Template has invalid parameters
      • There is nothing I can do to fix this. This is something only Wikia Staff can fix.
      • Wikia Staff claimed over a year ago that the platform update would resolve these.
      • FINALLY FIXED as of 16:21, 18 August 2021 (UTC)
    27. DPL queries with errors just silently ignore the errors instead of displaying an error message like they used to.
      • There is nothing I can do to fix this. This is something only Wikia Staff can fix.
      • This makes it very hard to debug problems. Is the DPL query not showing anything because there are no matches, or is it showing no results because there's some unknown error that I need to be a fucking psychic to figure out.
      • Note: I've found one case in which a single error is shown, but a variety of error messages which used to be shown are missing.
    28. DPL queries with blurbs don't work correctly
      • There is nothing I can do to fix this. This is something only Wikia Staff can fix.
      • Example: The main page news listing has the entire text of every news post, including comments.
    29. Table formatting has changed. Previously, you could put "|width=10em|field contents" to set the width of a field. Now, this does nothing.
      • This definitely results in countless tables across countless wikis having their table formatting ruined. Thanks a lot, Wikia Staff!
    30. Special:Contact doesn't exist, and just redirects to zendesk. For years, Wikia Staff have seemed like they resent people filing bug reports, apparently they've now decided to make it more difficult for people to do so.
      • There is nothing I can do to fix this. This is something only Wikia Staff can fix.
      • Making people jump through hoops so there are fewer bug reports is peak 2020. Absolutely fucking disgusting.
    31. Opensearch is now useless. Wikia Search has always been terrible, so someone created a script called "Search Suggestions" which added a list of title-based suggestions to the top of search pages. I also modified it to add a list of title-based suggestions to 404 pages. Both of these are now useless, and the 404 pages were filled with irrelevant results.
      • I've disabled both for now. I may be able to create a replacement script, but I have not looked into it yet.
    32. For the past 5 years, Wikia has used MediaWiki:Custom404page-noarticletext-alternative-found instead of MediaWiki:Noarticletext. But UCP doesn't use the new one. Any Wiki who customized the custom one instead of the old one is suddenly using the old one.
      • Luckily, when Wikia Staff launched Custom404page, it was locked. I had originally told them I refused to use the new one, and told them to disable it, and ultimately just had them redirect it to the old one which I could still edit. It was pure coincidence that I noticed this change.
    33. hidelogs=1 on RecentChanges does nothing.
      • There is nothing I can do to fix this. This is something only Wikia Staff can fix.
    34. RecentChanges no longer links to IP talk pages.
      • There is nothing I can do to fix this. This is something only Wikia Staff can fix.
      • This was changed LATER, around 2020-01-13.
    35. RecentChanges does not always contain the most recent edits, with some edits taking 4 minutes to be shown.
      • There is nothing I can do to fix this. This is something only Wikia Staff can fix.
      • I noticed this due to my AjaxRC script, but even manually refreshing the page doesn't show some edits for several minutes.
    36. RecentChanges sometimes misses edits completely.
      • There is nothing I can do to fix this. This is something only Wikia Staff can fix.
    37. The Recent Wiki Activity sidebar also sometimes misses edits completely, for no discernable reason.
      • There is nothing I can do to fix this. This is something only Wikia Staff can fix.
    38. When you upload a file which already exists, the error page displays the pre-existing image as a thumbnail gallery, and asks you if you want to add an image to that gallery. (And when you click the button, it shows a blank popup that cannot be closed.)
      • ...WHY? Who could possibly think that that is reasonable behaviour?
    39. The File Upload error page used to have two possible classes: ".warning", and ".error". ".warning" was changed to ".mw-destfile-warning". but ".error" is still ".error"
      • Why the fuck change one but not the other? Did the programmer fall asleep half way through updating class names?
    40. Newlines are not converted to linebreaks within Tabbers.
      • There is nothing I can do to fix this. This is something only Wikia Staff can fix.
      • Yet another instance of Wikia Staff not giving a shit about wikitext.
      • This was eventually fixed, after staying broken for many months.
    41. Editor preferences on UCP and non-UCP wikis are not correctly matched.
      • This is just utterly careless.
    42. Section Edit links are displayed even when section editing is disabled in user preferences.
      • There is nothing I can do to fix this. This is something only Wikia Staff can fix.
      • Once again, Wikia Staff do not care about user preferences.
    43. The "Template Classification Dialog" popup on all Non-UCP wikis is now broken. So no-one can create templates on wikis which have not been updated to UCP.
      • So, not only is the UCP breaking things on wikis that were fine when they are "upgraded" to UCP - UCP is also breaking things on wikis that haven't even been downgraded to UCP yet!
      • Yet another thing that they broke for no reason but will be too lazy to bother fixing, because if they wait long enough the problem will just go away.
    44. Categories are not shown in previews in any namespace
      • There is nothing I can do to fix this. This is something only Wikia Staff can fix.
      • This makes it difficult to troubleshoot category problems.
    45. Categories are not shown at the bottom of pages outside of the main or category namespaces.
      • There is nothing I can do to fix this. This is something only Wikia Staff can fix.
      • This means which hidden maintenance categories are not displayed at all, which makes it difficult to troubleshoot problems.
      • Wikia Staff again showing that they don't give a shit about editors.
      • Categories in other namespaces are back as of 07:36, 26 March 2021 (UTC) but look completely different because Wikia Staff used completely different classes for no reason.
    46. Categories outside of the main namespaces do not use the same class structure.
      • I have fixed the category styles myself.
    47. Duplicate articles are displayed in the Recent Activity sidebar.
      • In theory, I could use javascript to remove duplicate articles in the Recent Activity sidebar, but why should I have to?
      • Fixed before 16 March 2021
    48. Bot edits are displayed in the Recent Activity sidebar.
      • There is nothing I can do to fix this. This is something only Wikia Staff can fix.
      • Fixed before 16 March 2021
    49. Rollbacks are displayed in the Recent Activity sidebar.
      • There is nothing I can do to fix this. This is something only Wikia Staff can fix.
    50. Bot rollbacks are displayed in the Recent Activity sidebar.
      • There is nothing I can do to fix this. This is something only Wikia Staff can fix.
      • Fixed before 16 March 2021
    51. Editing an existing redirect causes it to be displayed in the Recent Activity sidebar.
      • There is nothing I can do to fix this. This is something only Wikia Staff can fix.
      • Fixed as of 21:41, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
    52. Creating a new redirect causes it to be displayed in the Recent Activity sidebar.
      • There is nothing I can do to fix this. This is something only Wikia Staff can fix.
      • Fixed as of 21:41, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
    53. Deleting a page causes it to be displayed in the Recent Activity sidebar as an edit
      • There is nothing I can do to fix this. This is something only Wikia Staff can fix..
      • This is particularly fucking annoying because it means that vandalism just fucking STAYS THERE.
    54. Deleting a redirect causes it to be displayed in the Recent Activity sidebar as an edit.
      • There is nothing I can do to fix this. This is something only Wikia Staff can fix.
      • How does this even happen? Why should a deletion trigger something to be logged as an edit?
      • At this point I'm surprised that Purges and Null Edits aren't also shown.
      • Fixed as of 21:41, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
    55. Category:Template errors - 55 pages didn't have errors before the update.
    56. The page resizing breakpoints have an error which doesn't appear at 100% zoom, but appears at all other zoom levels. Resizing any page with a rail to exactly 1024px results in the rail being shown with an incredibly squished article. Tested with 80%, 90%, 110%, 125%, 150% in both Chrome and Firefox. This can easily be fixed with minor changes to CSS - but the point is that testing CSS in different browser zoom levels is such a basic thing to do that this demonstrates that they don't do ANY form of testing at all.
    57. Audio files are broken in in collapsible tables, popout tables, and reference popups.
      • There is nothing I can do to fix this. This is something only Wikia Staff can fix - because the new audio player is a piece of shit which hides the filename and cannot be reinitialised.
      • If you disable javascript, the old Audio player is shown, and works fine. So why is there a new one at all if the old one is still present and functional?
    58. Same-wiki external links automatically open a new tab. This means all links in all navboxes open new tabs.
    59. Photosblacklist doesn't work. At all.
      • There is nothing I can do to fix this. This is something only Wikia Staff can fix.
    60. Titleblacklist doesn't work. At all. Special:Version says it's enabled, but it just doesn't work.
      • There is nothing I can do to fix this. This is something only Wikia Staff can fix.
      • When I first reported this to Wikia Staff, they said "Please includt the URL to the MediaWiki:Titleblacklist." Just when I thought they couldn't get any more incompetent.
      • They have finally fixed this, sometime between 2021-01-24 and 2021-02-13
      • It is only partially fixed, several filters which used to work no longer do...
      • and:
    61. Titlewhitelist does not work.
    62. importArticles can not be used in the user namespace to load other javascript in the User namespace
    63. importArticles does not work in test mode.
      • 10 months later, still broken.
    64. importArticles later completely broke, and didn't even work at all.
      • This single issue has since been fixed.
    65. File names are not displayed on Special:UnusedFiles
      • There is nothing I can do to fix this. This is something only Wikia Staff can fix.
      • Works fine on wikipedia, so it's clearly not a mediawiki problem - why is it broken here?
    66. Page usage is not displayed on Special:NewFiles
      • There is nothing I can do to fix this. This is something only Wikia Staff can fix.
    67. Videos are broken on Special:NewFiles.
      • There is nothing I can do to fix this. This is something only Wikia Staff can fix.
      • It looks like the only thing that wasn't updated was Wikia's lightbox, which is as still as broken as ever.
    68. The image lightbox doesn't open when clicking a slideshow gallery on desktop. Clicking a slideshow does absolutely nothing.
      • After waiting 3 months for this to be fixed, I have side-stepped the issue.
    69. The image lightbox doesn't open when clicking a thumbnail gallery on mobile. Clicking an image results in an error.
      • After waiting 3 months for this to be fixed, I have fixed this myself.
    70. Global user javascript isn't loaded.
      • There is nothing I can do to fix this. This is something only Wikia Staff can fix.
      • It took them just under 6 fucking months to fix this.
    71. Global user stylesheet isn't loaded.
      • There is nothing I can do to fix this. This is something only Wikia Staff can fix.
      • It took them just under 6 fucking months to fix this.
      • Except, as usual, they've fucked it up. The global CSS file isn't being loaded, the contents of the global.css page are being inserted into the page within an unlabelled style tag.
    72. The url parameters usesitecss, useusercss, usesitejs, allowsitejs, useuserjs, allowuserjs don't work, making debugging this update more difficult than it has to be.
      • Fixed sometime recently, as the help page still states it is broken
      • Nope, not quite fixed. useusercss and useuserjs work, the others don't.
    73. OGV thumbnails are broken. These have always been broken, but it was previously possible to sidestep the issue by hiding the broken image. Now, the controls do not display until you hover over the video, so hiding the broken images hides the entire video.
    74. OGG and OGV files are unreasonably slow to load compared with before the update.
    75. {{#ip:}} no longer works.
    76. There is no Special:WikiActivity, despite Wikia Staff forcing it down our throats for years.
    77. There is no Special:Pageswithoutinfobox - rolled my own: Saints Row Wiki:Sandbox/without infoboxes
    78. There is no Special:ActiveUsers
    79. There is no Special:MultipleUpload
    80. There is no Special:Editcount
      • Special:Editcount has now re-appeared. Unsure when this happened, as Wikia Staff fired the person who posted Technical Updates and apparently didn't notice they didn't assign that task to anyone else until last week. 20:33, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
    81. There is no Special:UnusedVideos
    82. There is no Special:Disambiguations
    83. There is no Special:Following
    84. There is no Special:Mostpopularcategories
    85. There is no Special:MostLinkedFilesInContent
    86. Special:ListUsers says all groups are 0
      • This was eventually fixed.
    87. Special:ListUsers does not allow admins/rollback/bots/etc to be selected.
    88. Group links to Special:ListUsers do nothing, even for groups which are listed.
    89. Special:ListUsers links to "Wall", despite the fact that User_Talk pages are used here.
    90. Special:ListUsers cannot be sorted alphabetically.
    91. Special:ListUsers navigation does not respect sort order.
    92. The class "article-with-rail" is added to all pages, even when it doesn't have a rail.
    93. The right rail is shown on edit pages in some namespaces, such as User:
    94. There is a certain situation in which the full size (massive) images are being loaded and displayed smaller, instead of loading the appropriately sized image.
      • I'm not going to report the details about this one, because I want to see how long it will take Wikia Staff to notice this on their own.
      • Of course they've fixed THIS bug before more important things that I actually reported.
      • Details: Category pages used full size images instead of thumbnails.
      • NOW, Category pages are using CROPPED images instead of resizing it to fit. This looks particularly terrible on categories like Category:Weapons in Saints Row 2 and Category:Vehicles in Saints Row 2 which cut off the images.
    95. Namespace checks are broken, {{ns:1200}} previously returned "Message Wall", but instead returns "Message Wall".
      • Apparently this was fixed, sometime before 16 March 2021
    96. Most wikis are littered with dead links and inaccessible pages of the form "Special:Badtitle/NS1201" - namespaces vary. These cannot be deleted through normal means. All newly created wikis get an inaccessible page "Special:Badtitle/NS502:Recent posts" created by User:FANDOM.
      • Luckily, the Saints Row Wiki isn't effected by this, as I already manually deleted all pages in those namespaces. However, this does not excuse this absolutely amateurish oversight from Wikia Staff.
    97. Category:Broken references - 220 pages weren't broken before the update: Saints_Row_Wiki:Sandbox/UCP_Broke_References
      • I have resolved this.
    98. References was forced into 2 columns for no reason.
      • I have sidestepped this issue with CSS.
    99. Slideshow galleries do not work at all.
      • This was partially fixed, and I side-stepped the remaining issues.
    100. There's no fucking Help:Welcome tool any more.
      • When I reported this to Wikia Staff, they told me "this feature is not currently available on new wikis". Last time I checked, this wiki was created 13 fucking years ago. Once I pointed that out, they told me "The message wall works on another software for new platform." - Last time I checked, this wiki doesn't fucking use Message Wall. (The icing on the cake was that Wikia Staff acted like *I* was the one in that conversation who didn't know what I was talking about, linking me to the Help page despite me leaving comments on the talk page 9 years ago.)
      • I've created my own replacement welcome tool in less than an hour.
    101. Message Wall Greetings are no longer shown.
    102. Links to Message Wall on wikis without it enabled used to display the user header and links, now it shows a 404 page in the main namespace without a link to the user page.
      • Yet another way that the New and Improved Tacked On Message Wall has even worse integration.
    103. Tranferred Discussions and Message Wall messages cannot be edited.
    104. New messages can be edited, but diffs and history are not visible. Entirely contrary to the spirit of a wiki.
    105. Transferred Discussions and Message Wall messages contain direct links to images. If those images are renamed, there is no notification of broken images on Special:WantedFiles or Category:Pages_with_broken_file_links - AND there is no way to edit those posts to update the image url.
    106. The new Message Wall does not have the function to close threads to prevent future replies while leaving them visible.
    107. The new Message Wall does not have the function to sort threads by last reply.
    108. The new Message Wall displays deleted threads with no apparent way to opt-out of seeing them.
    109. The new Message Wall has duplicated every old thread on my Community Central Message Wall.
    110. The new Message Wall doesn't link to the "user_talk_archive".
    111. The new Message Wall redirects links to "user_talk:user?action=history"
    112. The new Message Wall redirects links to user_talk diffs.
      • I knew that the new Message Wall betrays the spirit of wikis, but I didn't realise it also actively preventing access to the history of a wiki.
    113. The new Blog comments redirect links to diffs
    114. The new Blog comments redirect links to action=history
    115. Thread and ?curid= links to specific "New Forum" comments do not correctly link to transferred Discussion comments

    These are just the issues that I've noticed, generally because they effect this wiki. Who knows how many other problems there are that I just haven't encountered. Edit: over 100.

    In addition, these are the problems which still existed in August when they first announced the Saints Row Wiki would be "upgraded":

    • There was no user javascript
    • mw.util was not available, so most site javascript was broken
    • There was no easy access to source editor. The only way to get to the source editor was to manually add "?action=submit" to the URL.
    • DPL was completely broken, because the dplcache parameter was throwing an error, so every single page on the wiki was broken.
    • tabview was not enabled
    • No OGG audio or OGV video support
    • The "Disable Category module" option was hiding categories entirely when enabled.

    Wikia Staff have informed me that they're aware that UCP is full of bugs and will be doing bug fixes in the next few weeks.

    • Update: It has been over a month, and the list of problems I've found is much larger, while Wikia Staff have only fixed 1 issue in that time.
    • Update: It has been over a 3 months, and the list of problems I've found is much larger, while Wikia Staff have only fixed 3 issues in that time.

    I have reported several of the most glaring issues which should have never made it past beta-testing, and I'm aware of many other issues, but as the current state of things is 100% their fault, and not mine, I will not be performing any more mitigation until they have declared at the UCP is in a finished state.

    • To be clear: I have upgraded the site CSS and JS in line with the intended changes, and have implemented some javascript bandaids to fix several easy things. There are a variety of things I could do to mitigate some of the other problems, but I shouldn't fucking have to, because this unfinished upgrade should never have been released.

    If you see any other issues, please point them out in the comments below!

    452 (between 11:15, 28 October 2020 (UTC) and 18:13, 20 November 2020 (UTC))

    It has now been over a year, and there are many problems they have not addressed or resolved. ~ 452 (talk) 19:22, 13 November 2021 (UTC)


    I still can't even fucking edit pages without putting "?action=submit" in the URL manually. 452 11:15, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

    You know, a few months back, I distinctly remember thinking, "Godspeed, 452" with respect to Saints Row WIki's inevitable migration to UCP. At multiple points throughout the UCP updates/migrations timeline, I would think upon all the issues I imagined UCP migration would cause more 'complex' wikis like Saints Row; so, I frequently checked to see whether SR Wiki had yet received the migration announcement banner-and once it had, well, it was only a matter of time.

    I was not aware of the Saints Row-UCP test wiki and that concomitant migration preparations were underway as early back as August, so at first I was taken aback to read your opening line, "There was supposed to be a final warning..." --because I was thinking about ordinary migration/announcement banner circumstances; I know when the announcement banner first appeared on one wiki I admin (Baccano! Wiki) back in August, I thought I would have at least two weeks to prepare based on some blog post or another I had read on Community Central. B! Wiki was migrated in less than two weeks following the banner's appearance.

    I was already planning to wish you good luck with the migration, but, having now seen and read this UCP Update, I can only commiserate and wish you best of luck more fervently. There is a user-compiled list of known UCP bugs at Noreplyz/UCP that you may have already seen, or, if not, have an interest in checking. I don't believe the list is exhaustive, for there is at least one side-effect of migrations I can think of that I don't think is included; I added a bug myself that I submitted a ticket for in September and am still waiting to be fixed (.ogg file player embedded in collapsed content does not work/render). I can only imagine what myriad bugs you and general users have already found and may regrettably still have yet to discover.

    Ah, right, I'll try not to digress into a vent about certain general UCP gripes when this forum thread should stick to the Saints Row Wiki migration. I certainly do hope the next Technical Updates are bug-oriented, considering that a wide number of wikis have been newly batch-migrated (and with consideration to all the wikis that have been issue-laden for some time already).

    Before I sign off, which editor are you using as your primary/default editor? I switched to the 2010 editor as soon as it was available due to how unbearably slow the UCP editing experience was, and I'm wondering whether ?action=submit is unfortunately necessary regardless of editor, or... Well, you may have already tested that, and I'm sure I could test it myself.

    In sum: regarding the UCP migration, my sympathy for you and the wiki is acute. Revriley (talk) 06:38, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

    It sounds like we first got the announcement banner at the same time in August.
    I had already created my own test wiki back in March so I could align the CSS with the new selectors well ahead of time. They created the "official" cloned test wiki on 2020-07-20, but didn't bother telling me about it until 3 weeks later - there wasn't really anything for me to "do" at that point other than point out a range of flaws. It was soon after that that they "paused migrations" and the banner disappeared from here. But once they resumed migrations, the banner never re-appeared.
    (.ogg file player embedded in collapsed content does not work/render).
    Thanks, I noticed that, but had thought the cause was just that it was unclickable - unfortunately I only randomly saw it while fixing the randomiser templates on the main page, so that's just going to have to be something fun for me to track down later. edit: found! yeah, just a blank rectangle. Hopefully they fix that soon.
    I'm using the 2010 editor (without ?action=submit thankfully) - and will be encourage others to do the same.
    Due to all the problems it caused, the old "new Visual Editor" was soft-disabled here, so using the "use site default" (or whatever) option would default to the source/visual tabbed mode, and you could only use "new Visual Editor" if you specifically selected it.
    I also can only imagine the bugs that the new "new Visual Editor" is going to cause due to being the default.
    They fucked up the implementation of editor preferences, so if you select "source" on a non-UCP wiki, your UCP wiki preference is STILL set to "visual editor - source mode".
    Preferred editor comparison.png
    I had thought that the problem was simply that option 3 was mapped to option 3 - a rookie mistake, but I just tested the other options and they've successfully mapped both option 1 and 2 to option 1. I think this shows that this is deliberate, so saying "The bug fix for editor preferences being mismatched between Legacy and UCP is currently undergoing QA.", and later claiming it was fixed is yet another lie from Wikia Staff.
    Fortunately, most of the issues with UCP aren't difficult for me to overcome, the worst part for me is the timing. That and having to wait up to several days for javascript edits to be approved. And my global JS still not being loaded.
    452 14:12, 3 November 2020 (UTC) (updated 17:39, 3 November 2020 (UTC))
    I just tried to fix the "ogg in collapsible" problem, and I can't, because the filename isn't even in the HTML. 452 17:52, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
    Typo fix for first reply: I typed a semi-colon instead of a colon within the Noreplyz/UCP link. Fixed; link now actually links to the list of issues.
    Ha, did you see the global "fatal exception" issue that crashed all UCP and UCP-migrated wikis earlier this morning, as caused by a new UCP update? Refreshed this wiki intending to reply to your reply; got the invalidargumentexception token. Same on Baccano! Wiki. They've reverted the update for the time being and are now trying to figure out what went wrong. I can already think of one thing to fix: improve beta testing + development before rolling out updates! Talk about imbroglios...
    Editor preferences
    Oh yes, it didn't take long for people to notice this issue after the 2010 editor first went live; it was brought to my attention the day of release, I think, when I was discussing the release in question. I remember them saying they were looking into this issue; I guess I'm not surprised it hasn't actually been thoroughly resolved yet. I mean, they thought they resolved the issue with .ogg files not playing back in September (and, to be fair, they mostly did), but evidently they must not have tested whether .ogg files embedded in collapsed content will be playable after the content is expanded (because, of course, I experienced the bug on B! Wiki here, ticket #973822 submitted Sep 13)--so the state of their beta testing for bug fixes must not be as adroit as one would like. Not to mention the inaccurate image displays for article thumbnails; again, somewhat fixed, but still not properly resolved. Alas.
    Glad that the 2010 editor is working out for you. I'd definitely recommend it to others (and have) based solely on the fact it provides a faster editing experience than the UCP editor (regardless of whether one uses Visual or Source); the delay while editing (waiting upwards of a minute or so for inputted text to show on screen, etc) was incredibly frustrating, certainly detrimental to workflow. Of course, if the UCP editors are requiring action...submit on Saints Row Wiki, then that's all the more vital reason to direct users to the 2010 editor for the time being.
    I'm not actually sure I noticed any banner on Saints Row Wiki prior to September, when I did see the migration banner show up here. Checking my messages on the Dev Wiki Discord server, I see I wrote 'Godspeed, 452' on September 17 with reference to the banner, again presuming the migration would be a nightmare. Of course, I simply might not have visited the wiki in August at the time you say the banner appeared...
    But I suppose that's moot now. What's not moot is the gamut of bugs, that's quite clear. Revriley (talk) 18:19, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
    Oh, speaking of things the migration has changed on Saints Row Wiki, your "You must create an account to access File pages" PSA for lightboxes no longer displays; this is due to certain class selectors being removed for UCP. I know this because I decided to follow in your footsteps in the wake of this Technical Update on anons and File Pages (notice how long the discussion continued after you unfollowed that thread; my own comments are buried somewhere in there)--but I decided to do so after the UCP migration, and had to investigate with the Inspect/Chromium Dev Tools to figure out what the issue was (and confirmed my suspicion was correct later).
    You're using .user-anon .LightboxModal .LightboxHeader:after currently on Common.css. You need to remove .user-anon for the code to work again; this is because UCP no longer has the user-specific classes like .user-anon and .user-logged. Doesn't seem like there are any updated/replacement versions of user-specific classes; if there are, nobody has figured out what they might be, since the UCP github repository is inaccessible and FANDOM has yet to formally list all the new (changed/replaced) class selectors, or the ones that have been removed altogether for UCP. Of course, this (removing the obsolete .user-anon class) means the file pages PSA will be visible to anons and logged-in users if you choose to keep it, but it's either that or retiring the PSA completely.
    (Okay, now I'm generally venting). The class selector changes/removals are definitely one of my bigger UCP gripes, in no small part due to the fact Staff never really formally informed users of the changes. A change in a certain class selector immediately 'broke' B! Wiki's article background image upon migration, for instance. When trying to fix it, I was kindly informed by our former Wiki Manager I needed to actually switch to another class selector because the one I used was no longer acceptable according to FANDOM's updated Customization Policy (which I had not realized had been updated). Then I had to dig around with Dev Tools for the updated class selectors for User Profiles. Essentially, us users are figuring out what class selectors have changed or been removed by stumbling across them as we go, it seems. Revriley (talk) 18:53, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
    Yeah, I was fixing something at the time and it occurred between me submitting an edit and the page loading - for a second I though I'd caused it.
    I just wasted too much time trying to dig into the ogg issue. I'd like to just disable the new player altogether, since the old player is still perfectly functional underneath it. As it is, I need to maintain the CSS for both for now, which sucks - and having 2 different players is going to be confusing for people.
    the UCP github repository is inaccessible
    Wow, yet another reason to dislike it.
    That would explain why I got nowhere trying to figure out the new media player. I guess I'll stop searching github and just read the javascript directly.
    Thanks for the heads-up about that message, I plan to - eventually - go through all my CSS to see if there's anything missing.
    As a workaround, I'll just check javascript for wgUserId and add my own class.
    I won't be revisiting that thread. Was there ever anything useful, or just more of the same from the usual people?
    452 20:14, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
    I just had the displeasure of trying to use Message Wall on a migrated wiki.
    It's unfathomable that they could make Message Wall WORSE than it was. You can no longer get to a thread from Special:Contributions, you can't get a thread ID from the page ID, diff links don't work - but ?diff=curr" does.
    And apparently some wikis have a completely bizarre Special:RecentChanges and Special:Contributions now?
    452 13:36, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
    Interesting that I said ?diff=curr works - because it doesn't now. ~ 452 (talk) 22:15, 23 February 2021 (UTC)
    I had completely forgotten that the mediawiki update is just UCP "Phase 1".
    Phase 2 is likely to be even worse for highly customized wikis.
    452 14:05, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
    I've now gotten Template:Random/Audio working fine, as well as purging and null editing pages.
    Unfortunately, I cannot get audio working in collapsibles, popout tables, or reference popups.
    The reason for both is that it is possible to initialise uninitialised audio players using
     $('video, audio').embedPlayer(); 
    , but that doesn't work on players which have already been initialised.
    The reason that collapsed audio players don't work is because the initialisation script doesn't like the fact that it's not visible.
    A work-around would be to have all collapsibles visible by default, and have them collapsed after load with javascript. HOWEVER, the audio player is initialised very very later into page loading, after readyState == complete, so you'd have to do a check for audio in collapsibles, and add a listener to the audio player to see if it's initialised. I might try that myself next week.
    But there's basically no way to get audio working in popout tables or reference popups.
    452 16:49, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
    I normally keep swearing out of the main post, and save it for the comments. And I did, when I first posted this.
    But fuck this shit-show. Why the fuck should I bother to sound professional in a news post when Wikia are so unprofessional that they release a bug-filled mess?
    If it had been one or two unforeseeable edge-case bugs, but this list shows an utter lack of testing, and an utter lack of care. 452 18:13, 20 November 2020 (UTC)
    After waiting 2 entire months for Wikia Staff to lift a finger, I've created my own replacement welcome tool in less than an hour.
    It's not fucking difficult, yet these so-called "professionals" can't manage to do it. These only thing they know how to do is make excuses. This "Can't-Do" attitude is the root cause of everything wrong in the world, so congratulations Wikia Staff for perpetuating that.
    If I were so inclined, I would recycle my "chat welcome" script which left welcome messages on Message Walls when people joined the chat, but since hell will freeze over before Message Wall is enabled here again, there is no point in me doing so.
    452 16:56, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
    The terrible changes start coming and then don't stop coming apparently.
    RecentChanges has now been altered so that there are no links to IP talk pages. It wasn't like this 2 days ago.
    They haven't fixed a single fucking thing in over 2 months, but they've made another thing FUCKING WORSE?
    452 00:41, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
    We just passed 3 months, and I count 3 issues fixed.
    At this rate, the UCP will be finished in April... of 2026.
    Except that in those 3 months, there have also been at least 3 new issues introduced, so I may be being too optimist, as usual.
    452 19:22, 30 January 2021 (UTC)
    RecentChanges is still fucking up.
    This edit happened, it's in the history and in my contributions.
    But it's not on Special:RecentChanges, or in the Recent Activity sidebar.
    Earlier, RecentChanges was just lagging, now it's missing edits altogether.
    452 11:12, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
    To test it wasn't an issue with pages starting with ', I performed another edit to the page, and that showed up in both fine. But RecentChanges STILL says that there has only been 1 edit to that page, and doesn't show the earlier edit.
    I used the normal editor, and didn't do anything strange, and it's not listed as a bot edit.
    452 11:15, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
    And again with Template:Discuss.articlelist
    It has just occurred to me that this means vandalism could be occurring right now and I would have no way of knowing.
    452 13:37, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
    Embedding images so they're not "unused":
    Table formatting differences, before and after
    Table formatting differences.png
    Newlines are stripped in tabbers, before and after
    More UCP bullshit.jpg
    452 18:49, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
    4 months later, and very little fixed. ~ 452 (talk) 21:13, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
    134 days since I was told that "we're certainly going to be doing a lot more bug fixing in the coming weeks.", Wikia Staff have announced they will start fixing bugs. ~ 452 (talk) 19:05, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
    They're going to be listing everything they fixed, which will make it very easy for me to cross-check with my list.
    So far, they've fixed nothing I've outlined, but have introduced another CSS problem for me to resolve, as well as "fixing" "A bug causing the project namespace to miss the right rail" - which I thought was a intentional, welcome, change.
    ~ 452 (talk) 19:10, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
    They've finally gotten around to fixing the duplication in the Recent Wiki Activity sidebar module. It only took them 139 days to fix it since forcing the Saints Row Wiki to update, despite this issue being immediately visible to anyone who actually edits a wiki.
    I've also just noticed that they've unceremoniously deleted the UCP test wiki I created in March 2020, where issues such as that one were immediately apparent. They're so opposed to the very concept of testing that they delete test wikis titled "This is my test wiki" without warning.
    ~ 452 (talk) 20:42, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
    Redirects, however, are still shown in the Recent Wiki Activity sidebar. ~ 452 (talk) 20:44, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
    The problems I've listed here are just the tip of the iceberg, as this week they've finally fixed more than 100 other bugs. ~ 452 (talk) 19:30, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
    Apparently after spending a week and another week, fixing hundreds of bugs I had never even encountered, they've stopped fixing bugs, despite not even fixing half of the bugs I have found that they introduced last November. ~ 452 (talk) 19:46, 4 April 2021 (UTC)
    Global JS and CSS are FINALLY being loaded again. ~ 452 (talk) 12:50, 22 April 2021 (UTC)
    It doesn't seem like any further bugs have been fixed over the last month. ~ 452 (talk) 09:47, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
    They've finally fixed line breaks in tabbers. ~ 452 (talk) 17:14, 10 July 2021 (UTC)
    Ugh, I've just read through the list again, and checked a variety of other problems. Everything else is still fucking broken, EIGHT MONTHS LATER. ~ 452 (talk) 17:56, 10 July 2021 (UTC)
    Special:Editcount is back. ~ 452 (talk) 20:33, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
    Special:ActiveUsers also. ~ 452 (talk) 20:35, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
    ...but only redirects to Special:Listusers. ~ 452 (talk) 20:36, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

    Phase 2

    Regarding 452's 14:05, 5 November 2020 (UTC) comment, "I had completely forgotten that the mediawiki update is just UCP "Phase 1". Phase 2 is likely to be even worse for highly customized wikis": If it helps, so did I. When I first got the FandomDesktop advance opt-in notification (the one that generously allowed us local admins to frantically try to make their wikis remotely presentable in advance of the new skin's global rollout), I ending up sifting through UCP posts just to confirm the whole Phase concept. "Oh yeah, they did say that, didn't they..."

    Well, now that FandomDesktop's global rollout has more then are you liking them apples? 'Global rollout', psh. Why bother giving admins the ability to mark a wiki as "rollout-ready" in the Admin Dashboard, is what I want to know. The existence of such a button implicitly suggests / recognizes there will be some admins who do not believe the wiki is rollout-ready, and by 'believe' I mean "agree, because the admin knows full well how much work on the new skin customizations they have done and have yet to complete." Yet, heedless of this, FANDOM has rolled out the new skin for wikis that are implicitly not ready. I know because I definitely did not mark any of the wikis I admin as ready for the rollout. I suppose they meant "ready for advance rollout, but suck it up, buckaroo, the global spring/summer rollout will happen no matter how unready you are."

    I'm writing this as a top-level comment, rather than as a direct reply to your November 2020 comment, because I expect FandomDesktop / Phase 2 as a topic is so broad / major that it will benefit from a new, distinct comment thread. The new skin isn't just a matter of aesthetics, after all; it's caused a lot of 'breakages' on wikis and expects a new workload of admins with regard to making a wiki Light or Dark Mode-compatible. Sure, there are global defaults, but a lot of manual customization is needed from us if we want the wikis to, you know, actually look good. So many templates need mode-specific versions, so many. —Revriley (talk) 21:12, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

    Thanks for stopping by again.
    The thing is, I had begun working on updating the wiki for the new layout, and was planning to mark it as ready when it was ready... then the very next week they went ahead and enforced it here anyway, so my enthusiasm for not letting them make the wiki look like shit evaporated.
    I would have had the CSS sparkling before I pressed the rollout-ready button, but if they want the wiki to look like shit by forcing the update before I'm ready, that's on them.
    And I don't even need to make a new news post about it, since this one is still current, and they never fixed all the issues with it.
    I'm pretty sure that when there's a clogged toilet at FANDOM HQ, instead of calling a plumber, they just take another dump in it. Probably an upper-decker.
    ~ 452 (talk) 21:37, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
         "Thanks for stopping by again." | Of course! I did mean to reply to your reply, by the way, I just...well, let's just say time blindness and forgetfulness are perennial personal issues I am perennially attempting to improve. (That, and there's the godforsaken unfinished Master's Thesis that coils around my neck.) Saints Row Wiki is one of those wikis I like to check in on now and then more for how it's run/organized rather than its content; that is to say, I've dabbled when it comes to playing the games themselves—but only dabbled, so actively contributing to the wiki (beyond minor edits) has not been a factor in my visitation. (Embarrassing, I know, but my first experience with Saints Row was Saints Row IV, which I bought in 2014...but still have yet to finish!) I think—years back—I came across one of your comments in one of the Community Central forum threads or technical updates or staff posts, was impressed (then checked out Saints Row Wiki and was further impressed)—and thereafter began checking in from time to time. What can I say? There are a few local wiki admins whom I've come to admire and learn from, regardless of their wikis' subject, and you're one of them. Come to think of it, I stumbled across a...drama compilation post (?) involving you / this wiki on an unaffiliated site some months ago—imagine my shock when I recognized whom it involved. I considered informing you (but forgot to), and perhaps I should still, but that's for your Talk Page as opposed to this thread.
         Yes, I had started FandomDesktop prep work on the four wikis I admin as well. It was...frustrating, the day I checked the 'logged-out' version of the most popular wiki (Baccano! Wiki) to discover the default skin for anons had been changed to FandomDesktop regardless of the fact I was not ready. Certainly, I'd made headway on B! Wiki and the other three during the advance period, but there was and still remains work to be done. I am only one person, responsible for four wikis, and changes across four wikis takes time. Making mode-specific alterations is especially intensive; as I alluded to, templates in particular are likely to look good in one mode (i.e. whichever mode the pre-existing theme inherently adhered to more) versus another. IN other words, just because I'd made headway on the most major / critical issues raised by the new skin doesn't mean I had—nor have I still ubiquitously—tackled all the issues. Again, there remain templates to mode-tailor... I still haven't fixed the damn templates that are both specific and imperative to one article in particular, though with those ones it's more a matter of figuring out the tabs...but I ramble and digress per my usual nonsense. Forgive me.
         By the by, I believe you without hesitation when you say you would have made the CSS sparkling had FANDOM not steamrolled ahead; I notice with some amusement that Saints Row Wiki's MediaWiki:Fandomdesktop.css does not even exist yet, perhaps because it may not need to, since you're on top of things. I have been making an effort to appreciate some of the positives that have come from the new skin in the meantime. Pinned local top nav, natively accessible article TOC while scrolling, and a Dark Mode toggle (despite the labor Light / Dark Mode all but requires of local admins) are all good things. Of course, the downsides... Actually, hold that thought. I didn't give the mode toggle a go on Saints Row Wiki before, but now that I am, it seems there's no difference? Dark Mode is the same as Light Mode? This must be the result of a conscious action on your part. I'm curious: is this because you cannot or do not want to create a whole new 'mode' for the wiki (e.g. you reject acquiescing to the labor demands imposed by a mode you did not ask for), or is this a temporary measure stemming from principle (e.g. you refuse to stand for a half-baked, work-in-progress alternative mode and will only permit mode toggling once you've cobbled together an encompassing, fully realized/ubiquitously reaching cascading style sheet)? Given your personal standards and your remarks re: "If they want the Wiki to look like shit", (hah!) I'll guess the latter.
         Given SR Wiki's behind-the-scenes complexity, and given your article count is double that of B! Wiki's, I simultaneously, respectively understand and don't envy you... Ah, postscript: Good call on sectioning off Phase 2. Clearly delineating topics never hurts. —Revriley (talk) 04:27, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
    Awww, thanks. It's nice to be appreciated.
    Sorry for my lack of response, I wrote one then my browser crashed and I've just been too depressed by this shitshow to even look at the wiki recently. Even just looking at this now has given me a headache.
    No problem about not playing the games, with your first experience being SRIV, I don't blame you at all for not finishing it - speaking of shitshows, it's like they just left out a bunch of cutscenes.
    Are you referring to the /r/HobbyDrama post? Yeah, I found that while I was googling for updates on that situation. As far as I can tell, he finally gave up.
    No problem with the rambling, I do the same!
    Luckily, having previously made most of my templates skin and width agnostic for monobook compatibility served me well.
    I had no idea Fandomdesktop.css even existed, and won't be using it.
    I like your train of thought discovery of the SRW's lack of dark mode. I had a really good explanation for that in my first draft - I don't recall what it was at all! A little of column A, a little of column B. I saw there were problems with the default dark mode, so I fixed them in the simplest way.
    Hmm, the first time writing a response, I remember my response was so long I was going to split half of it into a talk page conversation, but I can't for the life of my remember what I possibly could have talked about. Weird. Probably an extended rant about how much fANDOM sucks.
    I notice that the Forum namespace is missing the sidebar - great. OH, and even better, logged out mode doesn't have the RecentChanges module at all. Ugh. It's like Wikia Staff don't even care about recruiting editors at all any more. It's so weird that they seem to HATE editors with such passion, do they not understand who creates their content???
    ~ 452 (talk) 20:56, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
    Just now, the color of the "fandom-community-header" text has defaulted to black across all wikis, despite the local theme setting it to white. ~ 452 (talk) 16:58, 18 August 2021 (UTC)
    It has been almost a month already, and it's still broken on all wikis, AND just now the header color disappeared, rendering the header completely unreadable. They've taken away the :before css which applied the colour, I've added it to the local CSS. ~ 452 (talk) 23:00, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
    An idea struck me about why this might have happened, and after literally 20 seconds of investigation, I've found the cause: Fandom Staff are amateurs. ~ 452 (talk) 23:08, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

    It has now been over a year, and there are many problems they have not addressed or resolved. ~ 452 (talk) 19:22, 13 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Reminder about Retcons and References

    Just a couple of reminders.


    All pre-release information requires references. Any pre-release information without references will be immediately removed.

    All differences in patches and remasters should be documented.

    After release, information still requires references. Any post-release information without references will be marked with {{ref?}}, this wiki's version of [citation needed].

    For more information: Forum:References and pre-release information


    See also: Forum:Ret-cons: Gat shot first

    This wiki deals with Patches, Retcons, and Remasters the same as always: including information about everything.

    If something happens in the unpatched game, this wiki documents what happens and that it was fixed in a patch. The patch doesn't change what happens in the unpatched game.

    If something happens in the game and is later Retconned in a later game, this wiki documents what happens and that the later game is wrong about what happened. The later game does not change what happened in the previous game.

    If something happens in the game and is different in a Remaster, this wiki documents what happens and that the Remaster is wrong about what happened.

    Theoretically, nothing but visuals should be changing in the SRTT Remaster. But if even a single line of dialogue is changed, that doesn't change what happened in SRTT in 2011.

    Unfortunately, it is likely that the SR2 PC patch will introduce changes which are not in line with the Xbox 360 version of the game. People will likely try to claim that the unpatched SR2 PC "doesn't count" because it is broken and the the "fixed" SR2 PC will therefore be official - while completely ignoring the fact that the unpatched SR2 PC release is identical to the Xbox 360 release other than performances issues.

    Other than some added features in Re-elected, I know of only 2 things have ever been found to be different between releases.

    As with all patches in the past, changes should be documented alongside the unpatched information.

    Regarding "canon"

    The word "canon" is meaningless here. Did you mean Canonized, or Genki Cannon?

    I anticipate that the SRTT remaster will cause people to claim "This is what X looks like in SRTT remaster, therefore it is caaaaanon".

    That is not how it works.

    If we let later releases dictate what is "canon", then Saints Row (mobile) and Saints Row 2 (mobile) would be the "canon" versions of those games.

    Either it happened in a Saints Row game, or it didn't. Discussing "caaanon" is irrelevant.

    Coincidentally, Volition obviously doesn't give a fuck about canon either: see Timeline for proof of that.

    Over the years, I've noticed that the type of people who try to argue about something on the basis of "caaaanon" are generally the type of people who end up being blocked on the wiki months later. So I generally regard it as a word used by troublemakers, alongside people who change in-game capitalisation and valid spelling, or "correct" quotes.

    Replacing images

    Do not replace images of Saints Row: The Third with image of Saints Row: The Third Remastered.

    Changes should be documented, and images are welcome alongside existing images.

    Ideally, every SRTT image should be replicated, if there is a difference.

    But replacing images of Saints Row: The Third with images of Saints Row: The Third Remastered will be considered vandalism - files will be reverted, and uploaders will be warned, then blocked if they persist.

    Renaming images

    We are not going to start renaming images from Saints Row: The Third as "Zimos in Saints Row The Third (original).jpeg" or "Zimos in the original Saints Row The Third.bmp".

    There is no such thing as "Saints Row The Third original".

    Saints Row: The Third is Saints Row: The Third. Images from Saints Row: The Third do not necessarily even need to mention they are from Saints Row: The Third, so long as there is some other indicator, usually the mission name. Since Angel is in no other games, images of Angel do not have to specify Saints Row: The Third.

    Saints Row: The Third Remastered is Saints Row: The Third Remastered. All images of Saints Row: The Third Remastered must specify they are from Saints Row: The Third Remastered.

    452 16:30, May 19, 2020 (UTC) (expanded 12:48, May 23, 2020 (UTC))


    If you're not imagining a Jim Sterling voice when reading the word "caaaanon", then you're reading it wrong. 452 16:30, May 19, 2020 (UTC)

    A significant amount of UI images appear to have been changed. I have not yet decided how those will be handled. Obviously the files will be uploaded, but adding them alongside images in tables would be too cluttered. The best solution is probably just to put them in a separate gallery. 452 16:31, May 19, 2020 (UTC)

  • Audio support being removed

    Wikia Staff are planning a large platform update, which - despite being unfinished - is now forced upon all new wikis, so I created a test wiki to investigate the changes, and fix SRW well ahead of time.

    Among a variety of other problems, the new platform does not have support for Audio files. Or Video files. Or PDFs.

    Currently, supported filetypes on the Saints Row Wiki are:

    png, gif, jpg, jpeg, ico, pdf, svg, odt, ods, odp, odg, odc, odf, odi, odm, ogg, ogv, oga.

    Wikia Staff are reducing this to only:

    png, gif, jpg, jpeg, webp, ico.

    They are removing support for:

    pdf, svg, odt, ods, odp, odg, odc, odf, odi, odm, ogg, ogv, oga.

    The Saints Row Wiki has several PDFs and OGVs, and many ogg audio files. 1441 to be precise.

    I have no idea what will happen to the currently hosted audio files.

    452 16:29, March 12, 2020 (UTC) (more details added 13:35, 3 November 2020 (UTC))

    The update has now occurred. They belatedly added support for Audio, Video, and PDFs.
    Permitted file types: png, gif, jpg, jpeg, webp, ico, pdf, svg, odm, ogg, ogv, oga, flac, opus, wav, webm, mp3.
    However, they have replaced the player with something that does not match the style of the old player. The strange thing is that the old player IS still there, but they're overwriting it with the new player. To see this, simple click refresh here:
    Random Audio
    MUS SHARED 00071 News update (Saint's Seven).ogg
    Used on 2 pages, including
    Randomly chosen from 1401 Audio files on the Saints Row Wiki
    When an audio file is loaded, and the normal page initialisation bypassed, the old player displays by default, fully functional.
    I have added javascript to initialise the new audio player, so this no longer serves as an example.

    Quite surprising is the addition of flac, wav, webm, and mp3 as a supports formats.
    452 13:35, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
  • User Groups 2020

    It has been quite a while since there has been an major update to the usergroup/to-do list format.

    Last year I reorganized the footers to move the to-do list box between the gallery and the references sections.

    Unfortunately, I no longer have any way of determining whether that increased traffic to the to-do lists, because Wikia decided to remove my access to google analytics, which I had previously used to determine the effectiveness of changes such as this.

    However, it occurred to me recently that - because categories are now shown above the title, it would be possible to simply add all articles to to-do categories directly, via the existing footer, and have a much more prominent link.

    After experimenting with alternate ways to sort the existing forum and user categories in the to-do list, I implemented them today.

    Now, each the category list in each to-do category contains: a list of the forum pages, a list of all articles within the scope, and a list of all users interested in the topic.

    In addition to benefit of the to-do list link in the header, it will now be slightly easier to cross-reference all articles and to-do lists to ensure that all are a member of at least one category.

    Historical discussions:

    452 14:30, January 1, 2020 (UTC)


    As it turns out, category emails are still sent out when changing [[category:to-do/whatever]] to [[category:to-do/whatever|sortkey]], despite the articles not really being removed and re-added. 452 14:30, January 1, 2020 (UTC)

  • No File Page access for Anons

    In their infinite wisdom, Wikia Staff have decided that Anonymous users - everyone who views the wiki without logging in - do not deserve to be able to access File pages.

    What is a File page? Every image or other file on the wiki has a page associated with it.

    Example: File:Keith davids bills d.png. Logged in users can see the File page (open the link in an incognito/private window to see what happens when you're not logged in.)

    But people not logged in are redirected without any notification of the redirect, and have to hunt through the page to find the image themselves.

    What else does this mean?

    • If people who are not logged in try to download an image, it will probably be corrupt. (example)
    • People not logged in cannot easily download the original size version of an image.
    • People not logged in cannot easily see the file page edit history.
    • People not logged in cannot easily see the file upload history.
    • People not logged in cannot see previous versions of the file at all.
    • People not logged in cannot easily see where else a file is used.
    • People not logged in cannot easily access the file talk page.
    • People not logged in cannot easily edit the file page, such as to add a delete template.
    • People not logged in cannot be directly linked to files not used in the main namespace.

    When viewing an article, clicking an image usually shows a popup with a larger version of the image, but not always.

    For instance, all infobox images link directly to File pages, so if someone not logged in clicks on any infobox image, it just refreshes the page - or takes them to a completely different article if the image was first used elsewhere.

    Additionally, all normal links to non-images, such as Game Manual PDFs, become impossible to access. I will update all links to PDFs across the wiki to address this.

    Example PDF link: File:Saints Row online manual xbox.pdf (open the link in an incognito/private window to see what happens when you're not logged in.)

    The purpose of Wikis is freedom of access to information. This is outright discrimination against people who do not have Wikia accounts.

    452 16:20, December 7, 2019 (UTC)


    And so many external links to file pages now won't take people where they wanted to go. The correct way to link people to a file on the wiki is to link to the file page, so that they can then explore the wiki instead of just dead-ending on the file, but now, any links on forums etc will redirect to articles instead. 452 16:38, December 7, 2019 (UTC)

    And due to the lightbox not showing audio and video files, direct links such as this video and this audio file, redirect anon users to the main page, and tells them the file is unavailable. Which is utter fucking bullshit. 452 16:31, January 14, 2020 (UTC)

    The strangest part about this is that they claim it is supposed to help google results. But it provably fucking hurts them, because Google favors larger images - as it should.

    The google results for all images on this wiki either only show main article images, category images, or images from other wikis.

    The reason why is that when you make it more specific, the images are garbage cropped versions - because google is shown the mobile version of Wikia, and cannot access file pages.

    In March, I did an experiment. I kinda forgot about it, but the results are that the image results are better when google can see the larger images. Wow, what a fucking surprise.

    All Gallery sections now show this gallery style, so the google results for the majority of images should improve soon.

    However. There are still many galleries using the old format. Such as Mongoose, which shows the same images in the article as floating slideshows as well as in the Gallery. The image results for that article will be an indicator of whether floating slideshows will remain.

    Meanwhile, the lightbox doesn't work on desktop when clicking slideshows, and doesn't work on mobile when clicking thumbs. Because Wikia Staff still do not have the necessary skills to do something successfully.

    452 15:47, 11 November 2020 (UTC)

  • Top 10 Lists disabled without warning

    Wikia Staff have deleted 31 Top 10 Lists from the Saints Row Wiki without prior warning.

    On Community Central, Wikia Staff claimed that they contacted wikis with more than 10 Top 10 Lists. They did not contact me, or the Saints Row Wiki, in any form. They have now locked that thread so that people who were not warned cannot complain.

    Strangely, this deletion activity did not appear on Special:RecentChanges with bot edits shown - it only appeared on Special:Log. This is the kind of "under the rug" activity I have always been outspoken against. I do not know what their intention is with hiding the deletions in this way, or why they didn't leave a message on this wiki.

    As users of this wiki are no doubt aware, Top 10 Lists were frequently used on the Saints Row Wiki as both policy and opinion polls.

    Along with proving that the majority of people prefer Saints Row 2 compared with any other game, and dislike Saints Row The Third compared with any other game, Polls decided the outcome of a number of policy issues, including:

    • When admins should be demoted for inactivity.
    • How to deal with Minor Character articles.
    • What content should be allowed in non-article pages.
    • That the wiki should not enable achievements.
    • Whether trailers should be allowed on the wiki.
    • If anonymous users should be allowed to create pages.
    • Which capitalisation should be used for "The Protagonist".

    Sometime within the next month, I will create my own javascript poll replacement.

    452 17:52, February 15, 2017 (UTC)

    Wikia Staff are now attempting to claim that "it appears Top Ten Lists was disabled on your wiki at the time of the feature removal".
    -452 18:02, February 15, 2017 (UTC)
    For the record, Wikia Staff's statement that "Top Ten Lists"[sic] were disabled is provably false.
    • Fact 1. Special:WantedPages shows that there were 31 Top 10 Lists. These were not listed on Special:WantedPages prior to Wikia killing the feature, which means it was active prior to that. When a namespace is disabled, any links to that namespace appear on Special:WantedPages, the same thing happened when I turned off Blogs - WantedPages filled up with links to blog posts. So, if it had been disabled previously, WantedPages would have listed the Top 10 Lists links previously. Unfortunately, there's no way for anyone to verify that they weren't there, unless they looked at WantedPages beforehand.
    • Fact 2. The database dump on special:statistics, and the deletion log, show that I made a comment to a Top 10 List on 2016-12-31: ":Non-article content policies/@comment-452-20161231184955" (At around the same time as this edit)
    • Fact 3. The current database dump on special:statistics shows that Top 10 Lists were still enabled on 2017-02-08.
    • Fact 4. Special:Log/wikifeatures does not show "wgShowTopListsInCreatePage" being disabled - or enabled, because it's been continuously active since July 2011, which is before wikifeatures existed.
    Together, these facts show that it was enabled, and wasn't disabled.
    -452 18:46, February 15, 2017 (UTC)
    Wikia Staff are now claiming that there's no wikifeatures log showing it being disabled because it was disabled by a back-end variable change - and asked me if I'd ever requested for Wikia Staff to disable it.
    Again: Wow.
    If I'd requested for Wikia Staff to disable it, then how was it still active?!.
    Thus far, they have completely ignored the rest of the evidence.
    Isn't it interesting that all the publicly verifiable evidence that proves it was active isn't good enough for them, and they're relying on their own "alternative fact" regarding a back end variable to support what they're saying?
    -452 18:39, February 16, 2017 (UTC)
    Wikia Staff have now accepted the fact that Top 10 lists were indeed enabled here, and have admitted that the Saints Row Wiki should have been contacted regarding this before the feature was removed.
    Now that this matter is settled, I have removed all dead Top 10 Lists links from various discussion pages and wall threads.
    Additionally, I have created my own alternative javascript poll, which Wikia Staff have approved and is now live. Replacement and future polls will be located at Forum:Polls. -452 20:30, February 21, 2017 (UTC)
  • Disabling Message Wall

    Now that all Special:Forum posts have been moved to the Forum: namespace, and all blog posts have been moved to the Forum: namespace, the next obvious step is to move all Message Wall threads to User_talk pages.

    I've mentioned several times in the past that I regret ever enabling Message Wall, but that we were stuck with it because it would mean losing access years of messages. But now, that issue has been solved, as my Forum migration script can easily be adapted to transfer Message Wall threads.

    There are several issues I must first address:

    • Renamed users - this may or may not be an issue, but I need to investigate it.
      • It's not an issue so long as Wikia correctly re-attributed the thread when the user was renamed, which means in the case of any threads created by "user452", there is definitely a problem. Obviously in this case I can automatically correct it, but who know how many other failed renames there have been.
    • Walls which only contain a welcome message - I will be deleting all non-replied welcome message threads ahead of time, and adding the welcome message to all User_talk pages ahead of time also.
      • Note: On second thought, the welcome messages are best added at the same time as importing the converted messages.
      • After deleting all welcome messages, I forgot to disable new ones, so I'll have to do that again.
    New welcome messages will be prepended to all imported User_talk pages, then sometime later I'll add them to empty User_talk pages using GlitchBot.

    Since there are many more Threads tthan Board_threads, this will be a significantly larger task, and may take longer to determine that there are no bugs before performing the transfer.

    Also, since editing a User_talk page generates a notification, I definitely need to ensure that there will not be any problems.

    With both the forum and blog transfers, there are minor issues where pages with too many revisions crashed my browser, so transferring my own message wall is likely to be an arduous task.

    As I said, this will likely not happen for a while - probably more than a month. Feedback is always welcome. 452 15:08, November 21, 2016 (UTC)

    As previously announced, I have begun deleting all welcome message threads, starting with the ones left by User:GlitchBot. -452 15:44, April 27, 2017 (UTC)
    Due to a small oversight, I mistakenly deleted 112 messages which shouldn't have been deleted. However, I saved the database dump prior to starting, so will be able to reconstruct the deleted messages. I will be performing a full review of all threads I have already deleted to ensure there were no other mistakes. -452 15:34, April 28, 2017 (UTC)
    The good news is that I didn't mistakenly delete 112 messages. The bad news is that I've found a lot of old orphaned messages. -452 16:36, April 28, 2017 (UTC)
    There's still the problem of removed and/or deleted thread messages being indistinguishable from visible messages. It was easy enough to delete them in advance for the forum, but slightly harder for Message Wall threads, since there's so damn many of them - so again I wish I'd taken care of this years ago. It's really only a housekeeping issue, but it will still look pretty messy having a bunch of removed messages suddenly reappear.
    One thing is for certain: I will not be manually going through finding these. However, I may still be able to do this in a somewhat automatic fashion. I have several options, not of them particularly appealing. -452 20:20, July 7, 2017 (UTC)
    All removed and/or soft deleted replies hard deleted, now re-checking the same before moving on to checking for removed and deleted top level comments. -452 23:57, July 7, 2017 (UTC)
    All removed and/or soft deleted top level comments hard deleted. Now re-checking all 6266 individual thread entries again, then I'll be moving on to delete the orphans created by this step. -452 13:37, July 8, 2017 (UTC)
    Orphans deleted. -452 15:44, July 8, 2017 (UTC)
    Today I have deleted all old User_talk pages which were blank or contained only the old welcome message. There will be many other pages which end up with duplicate welcome messages. -452 21:22, August 5, 2017 (UTC)
    Despite multiple rounds of deleting orphaned messages, I've found yet more. -452 03:09, August 9, 2017 (UTC)
    Cause found: my orphan matching script was only returning 1 of out any set of orphaned threads. So, there are 24 remaining deleted threads which have a total of 110 orphan children.
    I believe that these 24 threads were deleted July 8th, due to the top level comment being soft-removed. Unfortunately, when hard-deleting pages in the thread namespace, Wikia does not record the deletion summary, so it's impossible for me to be certain at this point. Thanks Wikia, for yet another failure of the Thread system. -452 13:55, August 9, 2017 (UTC)
    Speaking of failures of the thread system, it would appear that CLOSED Threads had exactly the same classes and appearance as REMOVED Threads, causing me to mistakenly delete them. Fuck. Unfortunately, there are some really good closed threads that I wanted to keep, I didn't close many threads, but the ones I did showed people at their worst. I will have to go through each of the 24 threads / 110 messages to see if they need to be undeleted. Normally, undeleting a thread is pointless, as the thread is not restored to the Wall, but my conversion script works with the raw pages, so there is no problem. -452 14:08, August 9, 2017 (UTC)
    Okay, orphans fixed by restoring/deleting appropriate threads. Time to do the Orphan check once again. -452 14:43, August 9, 2017 (UTC)
    At this time, there are no more orphans. -452 15:08, August 9, 2017 (UTC)
    After numerous tests, I finally ran the entire script with the training wheels off, and it predictably crashed when processing my wall. I'm going to have to do this on a computer with more RAM. -452 15:43, July 10, 2017 (UTC)
    It also crashes on at least 1 other large wall. -452 00:01, July 12, 2017 (UTC)
    The problem with it crashing on my wall is due to it exceeding the javascript string limit, so all the RAM in the world wouldn't help.
    On both my wall, and the other, I'll be pre-splitting them and importing separate archive pages.
    I've pre-split the existing pages. -452 21:03, August 16, 2017 (UTC)
    Despite my best efforts, there were a few errors when importing my wall threads from 2012. I know the cause of the problem, and from knowing the cause, I'm fairly confident there was no loss of data.
    The problem occurred because of a logic issue: I was doing 6 months at a time, but I was using reverse logic to include the first 6 months in the first batch and exclude the first 6 months in the second batch. This caused threads started in June to be missing their replies in July in the first batch, and then those replies appearing in the wrong location in the second batch. I moved these to the correct location, but the history looks a little odd, especially since the edit summary contains the wrong information.
    Luckily, there was only one thread which started in June and continued into July. It just happened to be a fairly important thread in the history of this wiki.
    Anyway, I've changed the logic to prevent this happening in the next batches. -452 22:12, August 17, 2017 (UTC)
    Speaking of edit summaries containing the wrong information, apparently in some cases the edit summary contains the wrong section info. At this point I'm not sure why. I will look into the cause, but I won't be redoing the pages I've already imported. -452 02:34, August 18, 2017 (UTC)
    ...well, the edit summary always contained the name of the most recent thread, instead of the thread which was being edited. *facepalm* I was even outputting that information to the console, but never noticed the mistake. It will be fixed going forward, and I will look into redoing what I've already imported. -452 02:49, August 18, 2017 (UTC)
    The main reason I didn't want to redo what I had done was because I thought that separating the 2012 archived user_talk page from the message_wall thread would be too difficult, but it wasn't. There were probably a few maintenance edit entries lost, but the content of the edits themselves was carried over by keeping the recent revision from after the 2011 split.
    Anyway, all previously done has been redone, properly this time. -452 03:07, August 19, 2017 (UTC)
    I have now found a major issue that previously went unnoticed during the blog transfer: comment replies in some situations were moved to the wrong places. This issue wouldn't have occurred very often with blog comments, but would happen very frequently in Message Wall comments. I will be re-reviewing all transferred blog comments to try to find and fix other cases, and I will be improving my script to deal with these. -452 03:24, July 11, 2017 (UTC)
    This issue was present on 26 out of 324 transferred blog pages, which have now been fixed. -452 18:29, July 11, 2017 (UTC)
    Okay, problem found and fixed: I was using the wrong method to sort the threads, resulting in some replies being out of order. I'm now using the correct method, and will continue doing extensive verification to ensure there are no other errors. -452 00:01, July 12, 2017 (UTC)
    Counts after deleting all unreplied welcome messages:
    • Threads: 2151
    • Replies: 4285
    -452 17:51, April 28, 2017 (UTC)
    Counts after deleting all soft removed/deleted messages:
    • Walls: 1084
    • Total threads: 6175
    • First message: 2056
    • Replies: 4119
    452 14:42, July 10, 2017 (UTC)
    Counts today:
    • Walls: 919
    • Total threads: 6070
    • First message: 1892
    • Replies: 4178
    452 15:15, August 9, 2017 (UTC)
    Walls with replies: 414
    452 22:17, August 15, 2017 (UTC)

    Apparently Wikia have made some unannounced backend change to prevent pages moved out of the Thread namespace. This isn't a problem for the Message Wall retirement, as I wasn't going to be using the move function, but it's just one more reason to go ahead with this. -452 18:47, July 7, 2017 (UTC)

    They have also prevented editing pages in the Thread namespace through the API, blocking my auto-file-renamer from automatically updating those pages. Wikia seem insistent on making Message Wall worse and worse. -452 21:56, July 29, 2017 (UTC)
    This also prevents null editing. *facepalm* -452 22:25, August 4, 2017 (UTC)
    And on top of that, they've also removed the edit button from talk page archives. -452 17:26, August 1, 2017 (UTC)

    New slightly major problem: Until now, I've just been testing the transferred wall posts themselves, but I've now added the "retrieve and prepend existing user_talk pages" part... but the trouble is that MANY user_talk pages have had linkfixes and such during the intervening years, so just importing the threads with the current user_talk page prepended will mean that some changes appear in the history before they were actually made, and that when the edits actually do appear in the history, it will look as though I removed the imported threads in those edits instead of making the fix itself... and when multiple fixes have been made to the same page, it would appear that I've actually added the later issues in those edits.
    But the most major problem this causes is that IF the most recent edit to a user_talk page happened SINCE the last thread, the thread will not be present in the current revision, as only previous revisions would be imported.
    I normally find that the act of describing a problem inspires me to immediately think a solution, but this time isn't helping. I'm more just thinking of other side-effects.
    At this stage, I think the most effective solution would be a duplicate final history entry with today's date. -452 22:24, August 7, 2017 (UTC) (edited 22:28, August 7, 2017 (UTC))

    I have implemented this solution, only for those pages which have an old talk page. Fun fact: there are only 85 users who have both a user_talk page and threads on their wall. This number would be larger if I had not already deleted all pages/threads containing only a welcome message. -452 18:16, August 9, 2017 (UTC)

    I almost forgot to omit bot edit sigs again. Right now, everything is about ready to go, I've imported the output to a test wiki, and i'm randomly inspecting dozens of pages, looking for formatting errors. -452 00:20, August 11, 2017 (UTC)

    Minor issue: In threads where the second comment is not a reply to the first comment, but a later comment on the same topic, the indenting looks kinda weird.
    For example: an admin issuing a warning, followed by a second admin using the same thread for a follow-up warning appears as though the second admin is speaking to the first admin and not the user. -452 21:29, August 11, 2017 (UTC)

    Manually correcting these confusing instances isn't feasible, as there are over 400 walls with at least one reply. -452 22:17, August 15, 2017 (UTC)

    Ugh, yet another downside to Message Wall: people using useless HTML in their comments was not immediately noticeable, so there's a bunch of bullshit in the converted pages. -452 14:30, August 18, 2017 (UTC)

    After all Threads have been transferred and deleted, I will also be importing 6000 redirects to honour existing Thread links, I will then replace all of those thread links, and delete the redirects in 1 year. -452 16:49, August 20, 2017 (UTC)

    Right now, I have no idea how many thread links there are, but once the redirects are imported, they will be displayed on Saints Row Wiki:UnusedRedirects. -452 16:51, August 20, 2017 (UTC)

    All pages imported, only 1 error during importing, formatting errors found and fixed on 82 pages, no pages left blank... a better outcome than expected, as I'm used to a lot more unforeseen problems. It looks like spending extra time testing really paid off.
    917 Walls imported + 1 reimported + 82 updated = 980 imports, just like the log says. (2 split Walls imported previously).
    That's it, the hard part is done. Unfortunately, 1 person saw the "new messages" notification and saw fit to leave a reply on a 5 year old thread - which is fine, just annoying as it means I have to re-import that thread now. -452 18:19, August 20, 2017 (UTC)

    I am now disabling Message Wall, hopefully for the final time. -452 18:20, August 20, 2017 (UTC)

    There was one more import I almost forgot: my 2017 wall threads.
    Headers updated, now importing thread redirects. -452 18:39, August 20, 2017 (UTC)

    At this time, I'm going to leave all Thread pages intact, as there's no urgency to delete them. This way, if errors are found, it will be easier to investigate and repair. They'll be deleted sometime before the end of the year. -452 19:19, August 20, 2017 (UTC)
    6091 thread redirects created. For some reason, these are still being detected as being within the "thread" namespace, which doesn't exist anymore. "User_blog" doesn't exist, but "Thread" and "Message_Wall" still do. The upside is that his will make them easier to delete. -452 19:53, August 20, 2017 (UTC)
    Leaving Thread pages for now has helped with the link cleanup, as I'm still able to look up the pages.
    However, while cleaning up Thread links, I've discovered at least one case where some replies were mistakenly deleted back in April because the user had replied to the welcome message. I had tried to exclude threads with replies from being deleted, but I guess I missed some. I could restore the conversation, but it's of no great importance, and since it was originally misposted on a talk page, I've restored it there. -452 16:02, August 21, 2017 (UTC)
    While Special:WantedPages correctly contains red links for now-non-existing Threads (Which SHOULD have been listed on WantedPages long ago, but there was no destination-checking for Thread links), technically the Message Wall pages themselves still exist, and have to be deleted manually before they will appear on WantedPages.
    The only reason to not delete Message_Wall pages immediately is the possibility that I might need to reactivate Message Wall for some reason, but there shouldn't be any reason, as I'm able to determine Thread destinations already. For now I will continue cleaning up Thread links, and return to this later. -452 16:11, August 21, 2017 (UTC)
    After removing all links to threads, and manually checking a many user_talk pages for errors, I've now deleted all threads, as I said. I still have a full thread namespace export as a backup.
    All that remains now are thread redirects, which will remain in place for a year or so, and display a message that the origin of the link needs to be updated. -452 16:14, September 19, 2017 (UTC)
    It has been a little over a year already, deleting thread redirects now. -452 19:28, October 29, 2018 (UTC)
    Deleted pages without an edit summary are supposed to display a "content before deletion was []" message, but that is not happening with these. But it's not particularly important. -452 19:35, October 29, 2018 (UTC)

    I have discovered a small problem: When automatically deleting old user_talk pages prior to merge, I mistakenly deleted some anon user_talk pages. I should have checked the number of contributions or the size of the page, but apparently didn't. I likely only checked that the final edit to the page was the "triggering anon notification" edit by GlitchBot.
    This issue will have only affected anon users who edited BOTH before AND after 2012-01-27 02:43, in other words: long term anon editors, of which there are very few, and the majority of the ones that are are vandals. So, the only thing that would have been lost is various warnings and block messages for vandals, as well as occasional questions for where anons got their information, which were rarely answered anyway. (I uncovered this while examining some old anon blocks for the purposes of compiling anon aliases.)
    I already wrote a database-dump parser to extract anon and users for the purpose of verifying welcome messages, so I can modify that to give me anon edits by date. I can use this to compare "anons who edited before Message Wall was enabled" and "anons who edited after Message Wall was enabled" and hopefully the intersection of those lists will be few enough to manually restore and revert.
    Yet another unexpected Message Wall complication. -452 18:38, June 20, 2018 (UTC)
    Only 98 pages to manually check. -452 20:54, June 20, 2018 (UTC)
    Only 15 pages were mistakenly deleted, they have now been restored and merged. -452 22:05, June 20, 2018 (UTC)
    Unfortunately, I just reviewed a random selection of another 100 deleted user_talk pages, and found another 3 that shouldn't have been deleted. I messed up, because I had completely forgotten that I had had GlitchBot trigger a notification for all anon users in 2015, largely because anons could not see highlighted thread notifications.
    To remedy this, I will write a script to scan all the user_talk pages of all 2000 anon pre-2012 contributors, and manually check all pages which have more than 2 revisions (All have wikia welcome + GlitchBot notifications)
    A big thanks to the persistent multi-year multi-ip vandals, because I likely wouldn't have noticed this without them! -452 22:30, June 20, 2018 (UTC)
    According to my own deleted contributions, there are more than 150 user_talk pages which need to be restored. -452 22:38, June 20, 2018 (UTC)
    There are 219 deleted user_talk pages with more than 2 revisions. Some of these are possibly a link being removed, but the majority will probably need to be restored. -452 00:20, June 21, 2018 (UTC)
    Of those 219, 111 contained non-welcome-message content, and not all of them were from me. The reason it is less than 150 were because some of them were just a link being removed, as I previously suggested.
    I have, however, uncovered 1 additional as-yet-unresolved problem: I generated the list of anon user_talk pages from the full database dump. The full database dump doesn't contain deleted revisions, which means that if a user had no extant revisions, I didn't check their user_talk page. I generated them this way so I would know when they first edited. I will have to now cross-check the list of anons with extant contributions against the list of all user_talk pages, and check the remainder. -452 01:59, June 21, 2018 (UTC)
    Auto-checked another 555 user pages and found another 236 to manually check. That seems unusually high, given that the last batch was only 219, but it's entirely possible that these users created poorly named pages which were deleted, and were left a message about it. -452 02:19, June 21, 2018 (UTC)
    Because I knew from last time that >50% would be not restored, I adapted my script to just show me the summaries instead of having to visit the undelete pages manually. I was half-right: the majority of the user_talk pages were edited to remove the link to the page they created which was deleted.
    Of those 236, only 7 should not have been deleted.
    Unfortunately, I know I'm still not done. I have 1 example that I somehow missed during the previous steps, so I'm going to dump the deleted contribution summaries of all user_talk pages, just to be thorough. -452 02:43, June 21, 2018 (UTC)
    Well that was much more efficient. A final 16 deleted user_talk pages have been restored. -452 03:26, June 21, 2018 (UTC)

    Over the past 2 years, I've been slowing reviewing all converted talk pages.

    Today, I have finally completed the review.

    • 2 edit pages skipped. (10192 pages) There is no need to review these, as it is welcome message + import log.
    • 3 edit pages skipped. (652 pages) There is no need to review these, as it is welcome message + 1 comment + import log.
    • 4 edit pages skipped. (1847 pages) There is no need to review these, as it is welcome message + 1 comment + 1 reply + import log.
    • All 5 edit pages have been manually reviewed. (99 pages)
    • All 6 edit pages have been manually reviewed. (179 pages)
    • All 7 edit pages have been manually reviewed. (75 pages)
    • All 8 edit pages have been manually reviewed. (88 pages)
    • All 9 edit pages have been manually reviewed. (56 pages)
    • All 10 edit pages have been manually reviewed. (28 pages)
    • All 11-14 edit pages have been manually reviewed. (98 pages)
    • All 15-16 edit pages have been manually reviewed. (30 pages)
    • All 17-18 edit pages have been manually reviewed. (14 pages)
    • All 19-20 edit pages have been manually reviewed. (13 pages)
    • All 21-22 edit pages have been manually reviewed. (17 pages)
    • All 23-28 edit pages have been manually reviewed. (18 pages)
    • All 29-35 edit pages have been manually reviewed. (19 pages)
    • All 36-40 edit pages have been manually reviewed. (16 pages)
    • All 41-60 edit pages have been manually reviewed. (21 pages)
    • All 61-90 edit pages have been manually reviewed. (10 pages)
    • All 91+ edit pages have been manually reviewed. (22 pages)

    It is altogether possible that I missed one or two. Oh well. 452 22:16, March 24, 2020 (UTC)

    I did one last pass of all pages with more than 6 edits, and removed a few more duplicate welcomes, but that'll do. 452 22:39, March 24, 2020 (UTC)
    It would appear that users who joined the chat, but never edited the wiki itself, did not get a re-welcome.
    I can fix that, since I still have the list of chat-initiated automated welcomes.
    Not sure if there's really any point.
    ~ 452 (talk) 04:19, 1 October 2021 (UTC)
    Probably not, but done. ~ 452 (talk) 16:10, 1 October 2021 (UTC)


    Wikia Staff have proven that this was the right decision: They are replacing Message Wall with a "Discussions"-based alternative. 452 19:05, March 5, 2020 (UTC)
    And the "new" Message Wall doesn't allow editing.
    I am thoroughly fucking disgusted.
    Even in my most pessimistic scenarios, I could have never predicted they would take away the ability to edit entirely.
    452 16:43, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
    It also:
    • Doesn't have Message Wall Greetings anymore.
    • Doesn't have the function to sort threads by last reply.
    • Doesn't have the function to close threads to prevent future replies while leaving them visible.
    • Doesn't hide deleted threads.
    • Has duplicated every old thread on my Community Central Message Wall.
    And that's just the problems I've seen without ever even using it.
    452 (talk) 13:45, 17 February 2021 (UTC)
  • Lazy loading and the future of blogs

    When lazy loading was introduced, search engines lost the ability to see blog comments.

    I unfortunately didn't notice this until last year. I immediately asked Wikia Staff if this was intentional, they said they would look into it, but never got back to me.

    I recently remembered this issue again, and asked for a follow-up, and a different member of Wikia Staff replied, instead of the one who was looking into it. They also said they will look into it, but that "I think that, for now, we're OK with this.".

    Wikia Staff have again failed to realise that it doesn't matter what they're okay with, it's what the users of the site are okay with.

    It is unacceptable for blog comments on the Saints Row Wiki not to be discoverable via search engines, as there is a great deal of content in blog comments.

    I've now informed Wikia Staff if they neither fix the problem, nor disable lazy loading here, then all blogs will be moved, and the blog namespace will be disabled.

    Does anyone have any questions, comments, suggestions for alternate implementations? 452, 2016-09-27T18:37:28Z
    (last edited: 452, 2016-10-03T19:41:08Z)

    Forum migration is now complete, the next task is migrating blogs.
    Blogs are structured slightly differently than forums, so I'll have to make some updates to my migration script.
    There are approximately 10 times as many Blogs and Blog comments as forum threads and thread comments, so it will probably end up being a little more complicated.
    I will start by moving Blog posts in Category:Wiki News and Category:Game News first, and then move on to the rest in batches.
    But I have a little bit of coding fatigue, so I'll likely be putting this aside for a little while. -452 21:41, November 5, 2016 (UTC)
    • Game News: 21
    • Wiki News: 41
    • Old help topics: 36
    • To-do topics: 102
    • Misc blog posts: 151
    -452 16:13, November 6, 2016 (UTC)
    • Posted by me: 181
    • Posted by others: 165
    Update: first I will be moving the 62 news posts, then the old help topics, then all blogs posted by other people, then the to-do topics, the the rest of my own. Some of my own blog posts will go back to being usersubpages. -452 19:48, November 6, 2016 (UTC)
    Update: But very first, I'll move blog posts with no comments, because there's no additional processing necessary. -452 19:57, November 6, 2016 (UTC)
    It turns out that I was overthinking the problem, and the existence of subcomments really doesn't make a difference. -452 22:39, November 19, 2016 (UTC)
    Edit: It turns out that it did make a difference, but the issue didn't occur very often. -452 03:30, July 11, 2017 (UTC)
    Moving in the aforementioned batches requires additional modification to the script which is really unnecessary at this point, so I'll just be doing them all at once. -452 23:28, November 19, 2016 (UTC)
    After extensive testing, I've uncovered a previously unnoticed javascript sorting problem. Apparently sorting "1, 20, 100" resulted in "1, 100, 20".
    This situation was triggered if an earlier reply in the thread was edited much later than the others, and had a revision ID which was longer.
    The result of this bug is that the intervening edits would be lost, which was luckily glaringly obvious in my test data.
    Apparently this bug wasn't a problem for the forum transfer script: I've double-checked all imported threads, and there's all good. Either the bug wasn't present, or I just got lucky and it was never triggered.
    This is the purpose of extensively testing the scripts, of course, once this bug is dealt with, I should be ready to import.
    -452 17:40, November 20, 2016 (UTC)
    Just to be safe, I manually checked the page history of 123 pages to verify the problem was no longer happening. Importing all non452 blog posts into the forum namespace now. -452 21:40, November 20, 2016 (UTC)
    With the forum transfer, I deliberately didn't include edit summaries, as they were not used for the forum - however, they were used for blogs. So I'll be deleting the imported pages and reimporting them with edit summaries. -452 22:50, November 20, 2016 (UTC)
    Transfer done, with comments.
    I've just manually inspected the history all all transferred blog posts to verify that there were no accidental blankings.
    In hindsight, I should have omitted the "last edited by (bot)" sigs.
    Next steps:
    • Update all posts in Category:Unsorted
    1. Change all blog posts to redirects - done
    2. Export all blog post redirects - done
    3. Delete everything in the user_blog and user_blog_comment namespaces - done
    4. Disable the blog feature - done
    5. Import the previously exported redirects so that legacy links are honoured. - done
      • These redirects will be kept for at least one year.
    6. Wait for the Special page cache to update, fix all double/broken redirects - waiting
    7. Gradually update internal links to blog redirects to point to the forum post.
    -452 15:20, November 21, 2016 (UTC)
    Something which I wasn't anticipating is that Special:WhatLinksHere does not properly handle when a namespace is disabled, and is currently reporting that there are no links to any user_blog pages, when I know that there are.
    If I had known, I could have made a list after step 1.
    As it stands, I would have to massnulledit all pages, which I don't really want to do.
    It is possible, but unknown for sure, that the special page cache update may refresh all the links. Or it may not.
    Another option is to re-enable blogs, re-import the user_blog redirects, get the list of links to those redirects, delete the redirects, disable blogs again. I was thinking of doing that, until typing out those steps.
    The other other way is going through the database dump and finding all the links, which I think is the way I'm going to have to do it. -452 18:25, November 21, 2016 (UTC)
    The special page cache update did not refresh all links, it simply added a bunch of broken links to WantedPages which shouldn't be broken due to the presence of the redirects. I had already made a list of pages which needed to be purged, but I wanted to see if the issue would resolve itself first. Purging now, hopefully those broken links will disappear in tomorrow's special cache update. -452 11:05, November 22, 2016 (UTC)

    Purging all pages manually worked. I deliberately left 2 links unpurged, and apparently I missed a third. I've now fixed two, including the one I missed, and have left a final one.
    Also, in hindsight, I should have added a "Comments" heading below each first post to allow easy section editing for long pages. -452 09:14, November 23, 2016 (UTC)
    It wasn't specifically mentioned here, but all of the User_blog redirects showed a notice that the directs would be deleted on 2018-01-01 - I forgot about that, but have now deleted them.
    Anyone arriving at the wiki using a User_blog link, such as will now be shown the deletion message, including a link to the Forum post. -452 05:08, January 23, 2018 (UTC)
  • Discussions and the future of the Forum

    It's a well known fact that Wikia never bothered to complete these "New" forums.

    Wikia have now decided that instead of finishing it, they're scrapping it and replacing it with a new feature which looks like twitter.

    All wikis that use the New Forums will be automatically switched over to the new "Discussions" feature. As such, I will be transferring all existing New Forum threads back to the old Forum, and disabling the New Forum.

    I will be performing the transfer via import, so that all usernames and timestamps will be correctly attributed to the poster. All previous old-style forum posts which were transferred to blog posts will be transferred back to the old-style forum.

    I will be fully-deleting all previously soft-removed off-topic comments ahead of time, as there is no way for me to automatically determine whether a comment has been soft-removed when performing the transfer.

    Wikia has not yet revealed their timeline, so there is no immediate rush, but I will likely be performing this migration within a month or two.

    Users are welcome to continue posting to the forum up until the migration takes place - the transfer will be done semi-automatically on the final day, so no "new" posts will be lost. 452, 2016-09-20T03:08:43Z
    (last edited: 452, 2016-10-03T19:41:01Z)

    Update: the hardest part of the forum-reformatting script is complete.
    The next step is extensive testing.
    452, 2016-10-05T14:04:14Z
    Testing has revealed a minor problem, which I knew about in the beginning: getting the revision order correct.
    My draft notes acknowledged the problem, but then my implementation kinda skipped over that issue.
    But I'm glad the problem occurred the way it did, because it was obvious to notice, and if it had failed silently, I may not have noticed it.
    Edit: Nope, I implemented my original idea correctly, revision order is correct, the problem is just nbsps and other &s
    And, as usual, non-breaking spaces fuck things up completely, so I need to replace all special characters.
    Luckily, I can copy and paste my htmlentities.js script - but the point is that I shouldn't have to clean up junk left which should have been encoded when the page was saved.
    452, 2016-11-03T19:08:52Z
    (last edited: 452, 2016-11-04T00:05:46Z)
    And we're back. I'll recategorise all posts manually before deleting the New forums. -452 11:34, November 5, 2016 (UTC)

    For anyone interested, here is the list of transfers:

    -452 17:09, November 5, 2016 (UTC)

    Now that all threads have been transferred and sorted, all the threads have now been deleted. -452 17:37, November 5, 2016 (UTC)

    Wikia Staff have now disabled Special:Forum, as requested -452 19:38, November 5, 2016 (UTC)
    I believe I have now updated all links to Special:Forum, and Board:whatever - it may be possible that I missed one or two, I'll do a recheck once the database dump updates
    I've also created redirects for all of the old Thread links, so that all external links are honoured. -452 21:26, November 5, 2016 (UTC)

    When Message Wall is disabled, all of these redirects will have to be updated, as "Thread:X" links will no longer auto-matically redirect to "Message_Wall:X". -452 23:23, August 7, 2017 (UTC)

    Done. -452 18:40, August 20, 2017 (UTC)

    Wow. I just noticed that Discussions has been sneakily enabled on another wiki where I am an admin, and wow: it's even worse than I imagined. Wikia really know how to out-do themselves.
    Way back in my first comment above, I said I would be "fully-deleting all previously soft-removed comments", so that they didn't carry over - Wikia didn't bother, and have transferred over all deleted/removed forum comments, without any way to fully delete them.
    The ability to fully delete something is something that admins have always been able to do. Discussions takes that ability away.
    They've also recently added image uploading to discussions - completely bypassing file pages and filename blacklists. Proving once again that Discussions is a tacked-on kludge which is does not function in the spirit of a wiki.
    I'm so glad we will not be having that nonsense here. -452 16:20, November 22, 2017 (UTC)

    Even after discovering that I had scheduled the user_blog redirects for deletion at the start of this year, I completely forgot that these thread redirects also had to be deleted.
    These Thread redirects have now been deleted, the only remaining thread redirects are for Message_Wall threads, and they will be deleted whenever I remember after September.
    -452 05:33, January 23, 2018 (UTC)

    When I transferred Special:Forum posts to Forum: posts, I ensured that all links to existing posts and replies redirected correctly.
    Wikia, on the other hand, when transferring the same to "Discussions", immediately broke all reply links.
    A reminder: I am an unpaid individual. Wikia is a multi-million-dollar corporation who pay hundreds of employees.
    ~ 452 (talk) 15:04, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

  • 900 referenced articles

    As of today, there are 900 articles with references, which is appropriately two thirds of all articles.

    The Saints Row Wiki is more verifiably accurate than ever!

    Currently, there are still 250 articles with reference requests, and 35 articles with unlabelled references which need to be updated.

    When I first started, there were no references at all. Soon after I joined, a basic version of references was introduced. A few months later, I created {{ref}}, and have been improving it gradually over the years.

    At first, I didn't see the point of references, but after encountering the pervasive notion that "wikis can be edited by anyone therefore are unreliable", I soon came to the realisation that the best way to combat this ignorance was by using references where-ever possible.

    The beauty of a wiki is that anyone can challenge the accuracy of information. Anyone can edit an article and add {{ref?}} to mark something with needs a reference.

    References have become especially important when adding pre-release information. If we were to state "Saints Row IV has a cover system and no Zombies" without attributing those statements to Jim Boone, people could blame the wiki for that false information. 452 - 2016-06-03 06:54:12

  • Anon editing disabled (temporarily, now enabled)

    Since 2012, I have been reporting a bug to Wikia Staff which causes categories to be duplicated.

    In 2013, I actually went out of my way to help them diagnose the problem, because I naively believed that they actually cared about the quality of their website, and would fix the problem.

    Originally, the bug occured to both logged in users and anon users, but they fixed something so that logged in users can no longer cause the bug, but anons still can. They have known that anons can still cause the bug since 2013.

    In 2014, they claimed to know the cause of the anon duplicate, but still have not fixed the problem.

    Wikia have known about this issue for 4 years, but have still not fixed it, and expect users to clean up after a bug which they allow to continue.

    As it is irresponsible to allow a known bug to continue, I have now disabled anon editing.

    Once Wikia announce that this bug has been fixed, I will re-enable anon editing.

    I am sorry I allowed this bug to continue for so long, I should have disabled anon editing much sooner. I have now removed all duplicate categories from articles.

    If you want anon editing re-enabled, please use Special:Contact to request that Wikia Staff fix this bug.

    Here is a list of 49 edits on this wiki which have triggered the bug:

    452, 2016-06-01T22:55:04Z (last edited: 452, 2016-08-02T00:49:15Z)

    I personally agree with disabling anon editing. Less spam and vandalism to deal with.
    Ghost Leader, 2016-06-05T05:21:41Z

    The issue appears to have finally been fixed, and anon editing re-enabled 2016-06-25. During the past month, I have not seen a recurrence of the issue, but if the issue does recur, anon editing will be immediately disabled again. 452, 2016-08-02T00:50:44Z (last edited: 452, 2016-08-02T00:51:16Z)

Game News

  • Saints Row (reboot) facts

    Since Forum:Saints Row IV facts and Forum:Gat out of Hell facts worked so well as an information dump, let's use that format again!

    Volition are releasing a second game named Saints Row, with trailers indicating that they are apparently abandoning the history of the series almost entirely.

    This forum post is for discussing news about the Saints Row reboot.

    As news is released, you can post about it here, remember to link to the source.

    Information should be added to appropriate articles, only with references.

    As always, leaks are 100% okay - so long as you reference the information! The Saints Row Wiki will not be turned into a rumor mill.

    Trailers are being posted at:

    ~ 452 (talk) 14:17, 27 August 2021 (UTC) (edited 19:15, 20 September 2021 (UTC))


    Gee, your lieutenants are a car girl, a smart black guy, and an arrogant asian - what an original and fresh idea! ~ 452 (talk) 14:17, 27 August 2021 (UTC)


    • Announced on 2021-08-25 that it would be released 2022-02-25 - 6 months later.
    • Announced on 2021-11-17 that it would be released 2022-08-23 - a 6 month delay, made 3 months later. An entire year after the original announcement.

    How do you fuck up your game so badly that 6 months from release, you thought it would be ready in 6 months, and be 100% wrong? (Out by a factor of 100%)

    Maybe, on the heels of the GTA: remastered trilogy being full of bugs, it's *possible* someone higher up finally realised that rushing a buggy game out is bad, and decided to give Volition extra time to ensure they polished it.

    Or maybe... something else. We will very likely never ever know the real reason.

    On the Saints Row website, Jim "SRIV has a cover system" Boone says "we underestimated the impact COVID would have on our schedule".

    We're 22 fucking months into the pandemic. We were 19 months into the pandemic when they announced the original release date. What the fuck happened in the past 3 months that change the estimate?

    Jim "There is no Zombies in SRIV" Boone goes on to say: "Over the past two years, all corners of the entertainment industry have been affected/impacted in one way or another."

    So... he's well aware of that, but somehow didn't take the past 2 years into account when choosing a release date? ~ 452 (talk) 15:57, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

  • DRM-free sale

    Until 2020-06-15, all Saints Row games on Good Old Games are 75% off.

    No Epic required. No Steam required. No GOG Galaxy required.

    Just download, install, and play.

    Link Discount Price
    Saints Row 2



    Saints Row: The Third



    Saints Row IV



    Saints Row: Gat out of Hell




    • Originally posted 452 14:17, May 30, 2019 (UTC)
    • Reposted 15:58, December 23, 2019 (UTC)
    • Reposted 14:36, February 26, 2020 (UTC)
    • Updated 17:11, May 27, 2020 (UTC)

    It's slightly strange that SR2 is only 50% off, considering it has been 75% off in the past. I guess because it's the most popular game, so it doesn't require as big of a discount to sell copies. -452 14:32, May 30, 2019 (UTC)

    75% again for the Dec 2019 and Feb 2020 sales. 452 14:37, February 26, 2020 (UTC)
  • Saints Row on Xbox One

    Saints Row is now supported by Xbox One backwards compatibility, which is great news for anyone who never had an Xbox 360, but has an Xbox One.

    Here is the Microsoft store page.

    It should also be great news for this Wiki, as Xbox One can take screenshots, so I will hopefully no longer be the only user uploading screenshots.

    They have also apparently made Gat out of Hell backwards compatible, despite the fact that Gat out of Hell was simultaneously released on Xbox One natively.

    The xbox website's official list of backwards compatible games is now up to date (16:14, June 12, 2018 (UTC))

    Curiously, the xbox website's official list of backwards compatible games has not been updated with either game.

    -452 23:14, June 2, 2018 (UTC)


    The order in which they have become backwards compatible is utterly ridiculous.

    • Saints Row IV (natively released on Xbox One)
    • Saints Row: The Third
    • Saints Row 2 (Terrible PC port, so more in need than SRTT)
    • Saints Row: Gat out of Hell (natively released on Xbox One)
    • Saints Row (Never released on PS3 or PC, therefore most in need)

    However, since we're talking about Xbox here: Xbox, Xbox 360, Xbox One... So I guess it's par for the course. -452 23:14, June 2, 2018 (UTC)

    The store page says Saints Row is published by Koch Media, but the box clearly says "THQ" on it. -452 23:15, June 2, 2018 (UTC)

  • Saints Row 2 on Xbox One

    Saints Row 2 is now supported by Xbox One backwards compatibility, which is great news for anyone who never had an Xbox 360, but has an Xbox One.

    Here is the Microsoft store page.

    It should also be great news for this Wiki, as Xbox One can take screenshots, and screenshots of the xbox version of the game are generally superior to screenshots of the PC version. If anyone has both consoles, please take comparison images so we can see if there are any differences.

    Now all that is left is to get Saints Row supported.

    Even if you don't have an Xbox One, Vote for Saints Row to become supported, so that more people can contribute to the wiki. -452 21:48, May 2, 2018 (UTC)

    Strikeout added 23:52, June 2, 2018 (UTC) due to Saints Row now being backwards compatible.


    The order in which they have become backwards compatible is utterly ridiculous. They first made Saints Row IV available: Saints Row IV is already on Xbox One, thus it was LEAST needed. Saints Row: The Third followed, but it's the worst game in the series. Saints Row 2 needs to be backwards compatible on Xbox One more that those two, because of the terrible PC port, but Saints Row is the MOST in need of backwards compatibility, because it never had a PC or PS3 release in the first place. -452 21:48, May 2, 2018 (UTC)

  • Vote for Backwards Compatibility

    Xbox One Backwards Compatibility is apparently decided by community vote.

    Both Saints Row: The Third and Saints Row IV are Backwards Compatible, despite the fact that Saints Row IV was already released natively for the Xbone One as Saints Row IV Re-elected.

    Even if you don't have an Xbox One, voting for Backwards Compatibility helps the wiki, because it means we could potentially have more people able to take screenshots of Saints Row.

    Edit: All Saints Row games are now backwards compatible, and the voting site has been removed, so there is nothing to vote for and no way to vote.

    Go to and vote for both Saints Row and Saints Row 2.

    I don't have an Xbox One, and I'm unlikely to buy one anytime soon, but I've voted anyway. -452 19:24, March 6, 2018 (UTC)

    Strikeout added 23:53, June 2, 2018 (UTC) due to both games now being backwards compatible.


    I just hope that Volition don't double-down on dumb decisions and remake either of those games for Xbox One. Can you imagine how bad Saints Row and Saints Row 2 would be if they were in the Saints Row: The Third engine? They wouldn't even bother to re-implement the mission features, the entire game would be like King Me, with bland buildings, incorrect street layouts, and poor facsimiles of characters. :/ -452 19:24, March 6, 2018 (UTC)

  • DRM-Free Saints Row IV and Gat out of Hell

    Both Saints Row IV: Game of the Century Edition and Saints Row: Gat out of Hell are now available without DRM from

    The reviews start from April 20th, so I assume that is when they became available.

    As I've previously posted, Saints Row 2 and Saints Row: The Third - The Full Package are also still available DRM-Free, but Saints Row 2 is not currently discounted.

    The DRM-Free versions of Saints Row 2, Saints Row: The Third, Saints Row IV, and Gat out of Hell are all available for free if you already own the DRM-encumbered versions. To obtain them, you must claim them on GOG connect before the 27th.

    Once you claim the DRM-Free versions before the 27th, they will remain in your GOG account indefinitely.

    Once you download the DRM-Free versions, they are yours to install and play offline forever.

  • Free Saints Row 2 DRM-free upgrade

    I previously posted about SR2 and SRTT being released without DRM through - now you can upgrade to the DRM-free version of Saints Row 2 for free.

    If you own the DRM-encumbered version of Saints Row 2 available on Steam, you can now link your Steam account to a GOG account, and obtain the DRM-free version from GOG for free.

    Once your Steam account is linked to your GOG account, Saints Row 2 will be available in your GOG library, along with all other eligible games.

    This is apparently a limited-time offer, to find out more, go to

    452 - 2016-06-02 04:04:19

  • Saints Row DLC re-release

    All 5 Saints Row DLC packs have now been re-added to the xbox marketplace, after being unavailable for the past 3 years.

    The Ho Ho Ho Pack, Exclusive Unkut Pack, Funky Fresh Pack, Industrial Map Pack, and The Gankster Pack are all available again.

    If you have Saints Row, Xbox live, and a few spare dollars, now is your chance to buy them and add information and screenshots to the wiki before they are removed again.

    452, 2015-07-30T00:45:14Z (last edited: 452, 2016-05-31T08:35:14Z)

    When, and why, did they take them out?
    Railfan45-1970, 2015-08-05T04:28:05Z
    452, 2015-08-05T20:12:58Z (last edited: 452, 2015-08-05T20:15:49Z)
    Because maybe they were they were too old and people weren't buying them
    Jballl149, 2015-09-03T01:41:40Z
    Jballl149, 2015-09-03T01:41:43Z
  • DRM-Free Saints Row 2+3

    Saints Row 2 and Saints Row: The Third - The Full Package are now available without DRM.

    As you may know, Saints Row games on PC normally come with Digital Restriction Measures which force you to connect to the internet and install Steam, even if you purchase the physical disc. The PC packaging and disc do not even mention Steam: the first time it is mentioned is when you run the installer.

    But now, perhaps thanks to Deep Silver's ownership, Saints Row 2 and Saints Row: The Third are both finally available without DRM. No third party bloatware or internet connection required to install.

    I've used since it was still called "Good Old Games", and would recommend it to anyone. (System Shock 2 is also available there, and is the only place to buy a digital copy without DRM)

    Saints Row 2 has previously been available without DRM, but this is the first time - to my knowledge - that Saints Row: The Third has been available this way. It's better late than never, I suppose, and perhaps Saints Row IV and Gat out of Hell will be added in future.

    Edit: As of June 2016, no other Saints Row games have been added to GOG.

    452, 2015-05-11T22:46:57Z (last edited: 452, 2016-06-16T02:22:38Z)

    Of course, Saints Row: The Third - The Full Package normally doesn't come with the Online Pass pre-unlocked, so this will be the first thing I test after I download it.
    452, 2015-05-11T22:48:14Z
    • Saints Row 2 is currently US$2.49
    • Saints Row: The Third is currently US$3.79
    452, 2016-06-16T01:05:26Z
    The GOG version of Saints Row 2 runs perfectly.
    I was a little worried that the gaming laptop I was testing it on would be overpowered, since people always complain about the game running too fast, but it's fine.
    At 1920x1080, the HUD is the correct aspect ratio, and even with all settings at maximum, the Jailbreak boat sequence doesn't even have the noticeable slowdown that happens on xbox.
    I've also now confirmed that it's possible to pause+exit out of Jailbreak on PC.
    452, 2016-06-27T02:17:32Z
    Cars also handle fine.
    The only other experience I've had with Saints Row 2 on a PC was on a computer built in the Doom 3 era with the best AGP graphics card there ever was. This PC was already 5 years old when SR2 came out, so was obviously below the ideal specs. It ran Bioshock okay, but as you would expect, SR2 ran like shit. But it ran like shit because of the hardware.
    This is the first time I've ever tested SR2 on a newer PC, and it ran fine, which gives me a second data-point about something I've long suspected: People who complain about how Saints Row 2 on PC may just have a shitty computer, or at least a shitty combination of hardware.
    452, 2016-06-27T03:26:14Z (last edited: 452, 2016-06-27T03:27:17Z)
    I get no errors when accessing the co-op menus in SRTT, so apparently this means the Online Pass as been removed in the GOG version.
    Unfortunately, this doesn't help people who bought The Full Package for xbox hoping to be able to play over system link.
    452, 2016-06-27T02:50:46Z
  • Dex in Gat out of Hell

    Killing Dex is listed as a feature in Gat out of Hell on! Stewrob11 - 2014-09-10 15:59:08

    Product Details:

    After the space faring antics of Saints Row IV, many fans asked what we could do next... the answer? Shoot The Devil in the face. Play as either Johnny Gat or Kinzie Kensington as you tear apart Hell in a quest to save the leader of the Saints' soul. Historical icons, old friends, older enemies, a talking gun, a full length musical number, and a whole lot of other shenanigans all await you in the open world standalone expansion playground that is Saints Row: Gat Out Of Hell.

    Play as Johnny Gat or Kinzie Kensington
    For the first time ever, play as the fan favorites Johnny Gat and Kinzie Kensington, alone or in 2-player online co-op.
    An Open World from Hell
    Wage war against the Prince of Darkness through-out the 5 unique districts of hell any way you want: rescue allies, pick a fight with nightmarish Arch-Dukes, rob Satan's soul processing plants... dozens of options await you in an all new city unlike any that's been seen in Saints Row before.
    New Supernatural Powers
    The acclaimed super powers of Saints Row 4 are back with a hellish twist - Soar through the air on fallen angel's wings, summon devilish imps to attack your foes, and surround yourself in a divine aura that forces all to worship you.
    Outrageous Weapons
    Put the 7 deadly sins to good use with an arsenal of underworld themed arms: fire exploding frogs at enemies, shoot swarms of locusts, and even deal destruction from afterlife's most comfortable (and lethal) armchair.
    Kill Dex
    We promise you can do it this time. Pinky swear.
    452 23:52, September 13, 2014
  • Gat out of Hell facts

    Since Forum:Saints Row IV facts worked so well as an information dump, I'm going to go with that format again. Saints Row: Gat out of Hell can only hold so much information, so it's nice to have somewhere to list all known information before it gets organised. Please add the facts and references here to relevant articles. Any time a gameplay video is released, let me know here and I'll upload 100 screenshots of it for use as references. Remember: This wiki does not claim to be a news site.
    This wiki is the largest and most detailed archive of information about the Saints Row series, it is built by fans, for fans - if you're a fan, and you want to add news, feel free!

    Source Videos

    Official - hosted on one of the official youtube channels.


    If you know of another gameplay video, please leave a comment with a link. (Any links to duplicate videos will be deleted)

    Topic Information Source
    Platforms PC, Xbox 360, Xbone, PS3, PS4. [1]
    Release Dates US: 2015-01-27
    UK: 2015-01-30
    AU: Unknown


    Playable characters Gat and Kinzie are playable. No information has been released regarding how to switch between them. It is possible to switch between them by going to the Ultor headquarters. It has been stated that in Co-op, the "host" is always Gat and the guest is always Kinzie. It has not been stated what happens if you attempt to start a co-op game while already using Kinzie.
    Customization It is not possible to change Gat's or Kinzie's appearance or clothing. Or customize any vehicle. Or the appearance of any weapon. [3]
    Menu Map, Quest Log, Arcane (Super Powers), Upgrades, Stats, Audio Tomes (Audio logs?) [4]
    Music The Radio Stations menu is missing from the Cellphone/Hub. No music has been featured in any gameplay demo. There are no radio stations. [4]
    Homies The Homies menu is missing from the Cellphone/Hub. There are no homies. It is not possible to communicate with characters outside Hell. [4]
    Cheats The cheats menu is missing from the Cellphone/Hub There are no cheats. [4]
    City Hell, specifically New Hades, which has 5 Districts, and 81 neighbourhoods, a Tower in the center, and additional smaller surrounding islands.

    After release, there are now 82 Hoods.

    [5] [6]
    Districts "Shantytown", "The Den", "Downtown", "Barrens", "Forge", with a tower named "Tower" in the center [5]

    After release, Forge has 17 Hoods.

    Cribs/Gateways? There are 6 "Portals", one on each of 5 islands... and? These are used to Teleport. No confirmation whether they function as Cribs. [36]
    Stores There are 10 Stores. Most appear to be "Sinterpol Armory" Weapon Stores. There appears to be no Store Ownership, as all City Takeover territories are accounted for. [36]
    Weapons Cache The words "Access Weapons Cache" have been replaced with "Access Collected Weapons", further suggesting that there are no cribs.
    Playa It has been stated that your previous character customisations will be imported from a local save file. Presumably a Saints Row IV save file only. It has not been stated what happens if you have multiple characters in multiple save files, or how to choose between them. This is the very first time in the Saints Row series where local importing has been possible - if they can do it across different games like this, then that means they definitely could have allowed importing a character from a different save file the entire time, but chose not to.
    Dane Vogel Is an ally in hell. He gives quests and help, fulfilling the role Kinzie played in the previous game.
    Previous characters Dex's voice actor has recorded lines and appears as a zombie-like demon in hell, and he spawns at least 7 times as part of a Challenge. Legal Lee and Troy are specifically mentioned, but it is not known if they physically appear.
    Challenges There are 102. Only 56 are known. Challenges have been merged into the main quest log, and are split into related groups.

    After release, there are now 101 Challenges

    • It is not possible to view completed Challenges.
    City Takeover Territories are now all Hoods with actual names, and appear to contain exactly one point of interest.
    Satan's Wrath City Takeover is now required to progress the story. "Satan's Wrath" can be increased simply by collecting Soul Clusters, Audio Tomes, Commentaries, doing Barnstorming, and destroying Spires. Therefore City Takeover is not required.
    Diversion Targets 65 Marked Diversion Targets (+17 Activities = 82, but there are only 81 hoods. So there is one Target or Activity which does NOT unlock a Hood.)

    After release, there are now 82 Hoods.

    [6] [36]
    Vehicle Diversions
    Known Targets Marshalling Grounds (5), Extraction Facility (4), Survival (13), Altars (8) [38] [39] [40] [41]
    Flashpoints "Spires" are targets which appear to be the size of Flashpoints. They incorporate to "Hold Y" mechanic from Hotspots. They can fire missiles from a distance, which can be dodged by a button press. There are 26 spires in total. Spires do not unlock territory.

    edit: The map icon for Spires is indeed "map_start_flashpoint"

    [42] [43] [44]
    Hotspots "Marshalling Grounds" are targets which are about the size of Hotspots. They incorporate to "Hold Y" to shut down multiple locations from Hotspots. They incorporate the Brute/Warden battle from some Flashpoints. There are 5 Marshalling Grounds, and once taken over they incorporate the teleportation function of Gateways, but only between those 5 locations. Marshalling Grounds are filled with lava until they are unlocked.

    edit: The map icon for Marshalling Grounds is indeed "map_start_hotspot"

    Clusters Now known as Soul Clusters, there are 940 of them. [45]
    Cash Cash is called "Wages" (as in "Wages of Sin")[46] [47]
    Vehicles Yes, you can drive. There is no Garage, Vehicle Customization, boats or aircraft. There are few cars, and one bike. [48]
    Confirmed Vehicles Confirmed = name shown on screen.
    Weapons There are 19 weapons. 7 of those are special weapons based on the Seven Deadly Sins. As with Saints Row IV, weapons have Costumes, thus have multiple names. There is no confirmation that costumes can be changed. It appears that while each weapon has a separate costume name, the majority of weapons only have a single costume. (There are 2 Automatic Rifles)

    After release, there are now 20 weapons.

    Known Weapons Weapons in Saints Row: Gat out of Hell
    Class Weapon name Costume name Ref
    Melee Gods Hammer Gods Hammer
    Melee Omega Omega Omega [56]
    Pistol Hand Crossbow Energy Caster [57]
    Pistol Heavy Pistol .45 Fletcher [58]
    SMG Organic SMG Exodus 10 [59]
    SMG Rapid-Fire SMG Brimstone Belcher [60]
    Shotgun Ultor Soulsweeper [61]
    Shotgun Pump-Action Shotgun Damned Impaler [62]
    Rifle Automatic Rifle Ultor LMG [63]
    Rifle Automatic Rifle Lava Cannon [64]
    Explosive Lil' Croaker Lil' Croaker [65]
    Explosive RPG Ultor Rocket Launcher (PS-LS)
    Special Sniper Rifle Umbral Rifle [66]
    7 deadly weapons
    Class Weapon Name Costume Name
    Melee 7 Deadly Weapons - Envy Uriels Edge
    Pistol 7 Deadly Weapons - Pride Gallows Dodger
    SMG 7 Deadly Weapons - Greed Diamond Sting
    Shotgun 7 Deadly Weapons - Lust Boom Chicka
    Rifle 7 Deadly Weapons - Sloth Armchair-A-Geddon
    Explosive 7 Deadly Weapons - Wrath Ark of the Covenant
    Special 7 Deadly Weapons - Gluttony Last Supper
    7 Deadly Weapons - Sloth location Spirit Bilge, right next to the 666 building
    "Gat Gear" The "Gat Gear" trailer is an imitation of Top Gear. Top Gear did not review the Armchair-a-geddon, although the teaser and the full trailer were obviously designed to fool people into thinking they did, including the announcer doing a terrible Jeremy Clarkson impression.
    Controls Whatever your opinion of Steve Jaros, at least he recognises that the right control stick controls your feet, and the left control stick controls your head, and therefore "Inverted" Y is the correct way to play, as you do not move your head forward to look up. [67]
    Activities 17 Activities. 8 Hellblazing, 3 "Torment Fraud", 3 "Salvation", 3 Mayhem. [36][68] [69] [70] [71] [72]
    Barnstorming Because you have wings, Barnstorming might actually be fun and not a chore. (Also, there are 75 of them - so it's likely still a case of "fly under every single bridge")

    After release, we now know that there are 123 locations, but only 75 are needed for the Achievement

    • The first gameplay demo contained a Hood called "DyWynter View". As in Viola and Kiki DeWynter.
      • This misspelling was fixed by the time of the second gameplay demo.[74]
    • "Stilwater" is mispelled Stillwater in the released game.
    DyWynter [75]
    Stilwater [76]
    Enemy types Demons, Dark Inciters, Archdukes (Wardens), Imps, Grenadiers (Murderbots - Specialists with grenade launchers), Shadow Demons (snipers), Legionnaires (Marauders - weaker wardens), Bro Demons, Tragedy Demons. [77] [78] [79] [80] [81] [82] [83] [84] [85]
    Imps One of the powers is "Summon", one of the elements is "Imps", which causes Imps to be summoned. Once summoned, Imps can be detonated. [86]
    Achievements There are 45 Achievements / Trophies [87]
    Powers Freeze blast is replaced by Stone Blast [87]
    Powers Stomp returns [87]
    Powers There are 113 Supernatural Power Upgrades [87]
    Collectibles There are 64 Audio Tomes [87]
    UI mistake The achievement list again refers to the "Upgrades" menu as "Upgrade Store". In previous games, the term "Upgrade Store" has never been used in-game. [87]
    Achievement Epic Jump Quest returns as "Epic Flight Quest", and requires flying from the roof of Snowball's Chance to Sinterpol HQ. [87]
    Flying While flying seems fairly easy in gameplay demos, flying "continuously for 60 seconds" is considered an achievement. [87]
    Powers Wall running returns [87]
    Locations Blackbeard's ship is named the "Queen Anne's Revenge"
    Features Those "We at Volition think that you're too stupid to read a map so here is a huge arrow you can't miss" on-screen GPS arrows return. [88]
    Zin There are no Zin in New Hades
    Water "Water" has joined the list of removed features. All place which would normally have water, such as fountains, have lava. The lava is solid, but you can still "warp to shore". "Sinking" occurs in a scripted animation, it is not possible to "swim" in it, or "sink" in it in normal gameplay.
    God God is voiced by Nathan Fillion
    PS4 Bait and Switch The PS4 version does not contain Gat out of Hell on the disc, it only has a download code for it.
    Cause of Death The actual cause of death of many of the "dead" characters in hell is not addressed in-game. Obviously, everyone who was still alive at the time the Earth was destroyed would have died, but there is absolutely no confirmation when certain characters died.
    Health Pickups Health pickups return, and look identical to Saints Row IV. Why are there Virtual-Reality-style health pickups in real life Hell? (Is this more evidence that they never escaped The Simulation?)
    High Fryer Despite the hype intended by releasing a promo image for it, the "High Fryer" Ferris Wheel is not usable in any way.

    Gat/Kinzie can stand on the top of it as if it is a solid ring.

    Advanced Flight Controls The "Advanced Flight Controls" option has been removed. It is not possible to look around while flying - unlike previous games.
    • There is a mission counter on the Save Screen, but nowhere else.
    • There appear to be no mission end screens - normal unlockable popups are displayed after completing an objective.
    • Quest Objectives can be selected independently, instead of sequentially.
      • If you start any objective via the quest menu, and complete it, then the first one autostarts, but it is possible to quit and select a different one.
    • Quest Objectives are still missions, but now do not have names. (Exiting the "Rally Twins" target just says "failed" with no mission name.)
    Optional Tutorials After unlocking the Summon power, there is a "Summon tutorial" prompt... so it looks amongst the things which have been removed, there has finally been an improvement!
    Cutscenes The majority of exposition takes place in still-image flip-book-style cutscenes. Acquiring "Lucifer's Halo" happens off-screen. Gat and Kinzie's clothes, and hell-tattoos, change off-screen without explanation.
    Endings There are 5 endings. Chosen through a interactive flip-book.
    • If you want to see Johnny reunited with the love of his life, turn to page 31.
      • Late-thirties Johnny hooks up with Aisha who looks 20 years younger. That can't be the good ending.
    • If you want to see The Devil defeated and Johnny crowned the new King of Hell, turn to page 13.
      • Gat hangs out with Dane until the rest of the Saints die. That can't be the good ending.
    • If you want the Saints to find a new home world for what's left of humanity, turn to page 62.
      • You have to wipe out the native inhabitants first. That can't be the good ending.
    • If you want God to recreate the Earth, but in doing so retcon the entire world of Saints Row, turn to page 124.
      • Kinzie, Matt and Johnny are cops. - this appears to be the best possible result, and is supported by an idle quote from Johnny.
      • I'd never say this to the Boss... but sometimes I wish I could just start over. Tabula Rasa. A whole new plot. An entirely different life.
        — Johnny Gat

    • And finally, if you want God to bestow Johnny with all the questions of the universe, turn to page 248.
      • Johnny nods and smiles - the end. That can't be the good ending.

    Regardless of which ending is chosen, Gat and Kinzie are stuck in hell after the credits, and there is no way to return to The Ship, recruit Homies, or interact with non-hell characters.

    Voice Commands There appear to be a number of Gat out of Hell voice command Easter Eggs.

    However, Volition claimed in the recent livestream that voice commands were only for Re-elected, and not Gat out of Hell. Can someone with an Xbox One or PS4 confirm that there are no Voice Commands for Gat out of Hell?


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      international Release Date

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      Angel Tears

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      The Pride

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      Smoke Pass

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      Blistering Pools

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      Cardinals Glance

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      DyWynter View

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      Faithless Hill

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      Seers Tongue

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      Azazels Court

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      Forge Total Hoods

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      Burnt Offerings

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      Liars Line

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      The Stacks

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      Broken Cross

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      Omega Court

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      Goats Heart

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      Sinners Circle

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      Gluttons End

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      Frog Square

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      Debtors Den

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      The Fallen One

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    46. Note: Confirmed in the Playstation Livestream at 50m50s.
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      Omega Omega Omega

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      Hand Crossbow

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      Heavy Pistol

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      Organic SMG

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      Rapid-Fire SMG

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      Ultor Soulsweeper

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      Pump-Action Shotgun

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      Automatic Rifle

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      Lava Cannon

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      Lil' Croaker

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      Umbral Rifle

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      DeWynter View

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      Stilwater has one L.

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    88. Image:

      "Hey, we at Volition think that you're too stupid to read a map so here is a huge arrows you can't miss"

    89. Image:

      Gat on top of High Fryer

    user:452, 2014-09-01T04:05:42Z (last edited: user:TheMoonLightman, 2016-09-07T03:28:15Z)

    This wiki does not claim to be a new site. You misspelled news also i hope the weapons listed here arent the only weapons in the game it seems that with each new saints row game the ammount of weapons has been decreasing.
    Shotgun9009, 2014-09-04T14:43:17Z (2015-01-24T19:43:33Z)
    As it says in the list, there are 19 weapons - so yeah, less than in SRIV. But this is not a "full game", so it makes sense for there to be fewer weapons.
    user:452, 2014-09-04T14:46:52Z (2015-01-24T19:43:33Z)
    Have you checked out the interview with Jim Boone,Steve and IdolNinja?
    Theotherguy4576, 2014-09-13T18:33:56Z (2015-01-24T19:43:34Z)
    If it's not mentioned in the post, assume I don't know about it.
    user:452, 2014-09-13T18:38:28Z (2015-01-24T19:43:34Z)
    Rambulance is the new Diversion, as seen in the new GOOH walkthrough:

    Rambulance GOOH Walkthrough.png
    Rambulance level 1 complete GOOH Walkthrough.png

    user:TheMoonLightman, 2014-09-24T21:14:08Z (2015-01-24T19:43:34Z)
    Great, we'll need another disambig page.
    user:452, 2014-09-24T21:37:41Z (2015-01-24T19:43:34Z)

    They fixed "DyWynter View" misspelling:

    DeWynter View GOOH Walkthrough.png

    user:TheMoonLightman, 2014-09-26T07:03:29Z (2015-01-24T19:43:43Z)
    im so excited even if it is not a full game. i cant wait!!! also to see their perspective of hell, 2014-10-26T02:03:53Z (2015-01-24T19:43:42Z)
    There is a vehicle called "Comet" on a billboard, no idea if this is actually a drivable vehicle in the game.
    Edit: Confirmed. This vehicle is part of the "Balls of Fire" diversion.
    user:452, 2014-11-01T22:16:16Z (2015-02-01T21:19:08Z)
    Archdukes seem to replace Wardens.
    user:452, 2014-11-01T22:16:33Z (2015-01-24T19:43:40Z)
    There are only 3 vehicles which have diversions.
    • Rambulance (based on Ambulance) - Starts Rambulance diversion
    • Predaceptor (Monster Truck, possibly based on Atlasbreaker) - Starts Rampage diversion
    • Comet (Halberd?) - Starts Balls of Fire diversion
    user:452, 2014-11-01T22:17:08Z (2015-01-24T19:43:39Z)
    Minotaur = Stilwater Municipal.
    Just the Leviathan left to determine.
    user:452, 2015-01-23T13:49:51Z (2015-01-24T19:43:39Z)
    User:NathanJohnson has just informed me that this standalone expansion has it's own DLC, including an "exclusive" pre-order bonus... that will probably be available separately 2 months after release.
    This means that in another year, they will hopefully re-release "Gat out of Hell: +DLC" on disc... so I'm going to wait until then to buy it.
    user:452, 2014-11-14T21:22:11Z (2015-01-24T19:43:39Z)
    So... "Gat out of Hell DLC" is a DLC for "Gat out of Hell", which is DLC for Saints Row IV, which was supposed to be a DLC for Saints Row: The Third.
    TheAnonim13, 2014-11-15T11:46:10Z (2015-01-24T19:43:39Z)
    2014-11-14 - I said: probably be available separately 2 months after release.
    2015-01-20 - Gat out of Hell release date.
    2015-03-24 - Devil's Workshop Pack release date.
    ~ 452 (talk) 21:21, 25 September 2021 (UTC)
    • Dane Vogel has a hologram of hell very similar to Zinyak's Hologram of Virtual Steelport.[1]
    • Jim Boone thinks the audience is too stupid to realise that Dane Vogel is "an old friend".[1]
    • Jim Boone thinks the audience is too stupid to know that Steelport was the setting of SR3 and SR4.[1]
    • Jim Boone thinks the Gods Hammer is named "War Hammer".[1]
    • Shadow Demons are Snipers.[1]
    user:452, 2014-11-23T20:43:08Z (2015-01-24T19:24:36Z)
    In Divekick, Gat has at least 3 alternate costumes.
    In Saints Row: Gat out of Hell, Gat has 0 alternate costumes.
    user:452, 2014-11-23T21:06:01Z (last edited: user:452, 2016-04-21T22:42:18Z)
    Such bullcrap from Volition. Was it really that hard to throw in some ability to change clothes or even hair?
    NathanJohnson, 2015-01-02T13:58:59Z (2015-02-01T21:27:17Z)
    Hey he's Johnny gat man he doesn't need one cuz he's gat, 2015-01-02T05:08:49Z (2015-02-01T21:27:17Z)
    "Johnny Gat is Johnny Gat therefore this Saints Row game doesn't need a core feature of past Saints Row games."
    user:452, 2015-01-02T05:14:41Z (2015-02-01T21:27:18Z)
    I hope everyone likes flip-book-style cutscenes, and enjoyed the lack of details about Playa becoming President!
    • Fact: I was looking forward to learning how exactly Gat and Kinzie got their clothes in hell, and how they got those hell-arms.
    • Fact: Both of those things happens in a flip-book-style cutscene.
    I think you might be skipping some details
    — Kinzie, speaking about the game itself.

    user:452, 2015-01-13T16:44:45Z (2015-01-24T19:43:37Z)
    Even the ending is heavy with flipping-pages bullshit.
    • If you want to see Johnny reunited with the love of his life, turn to page 31.
    • If you want to see The Devil defeated and Johnny crowned the new King of Hell, turn to page 13.
    • If you want the Saints to find a new home world for what's left of humanity, turn to page 62.
    • If you want God to recreate the Earth, but in doing so retcon the entire world of Saints Row, turn to page 124.
    • And finally, if you want God to bestow Johnny with all the questions of the universe, turn to page 248.
    You then get to flip the book pages yourself.
    Hey, at least they in-universe acknowledge retconning.
    user:452, 2015-01-19T17:56:27Z (last edited: user:452, 2015-02-28T08:14:03Z)
    It's hard to tell which one is the "good" ending.
    • 31: Apparently late-thirties Johnny hooks up with late-teens Aisha. That can't be the good ending.
    • 13: You hang out with Dane until the rest of the Saints die. That can't be the good ending.
    • 62: You have to wipe out the native inhabitants first. That can't be the good ending.
    • 124: Kinzie, Matt and Johnny are cops. - this appears to be the best possible result, but I saw it without audio or subtitles, so I don't know what was really going on.
    • 248: Johnny nods and smiles - the end. But I saw it without audio or subtitles, so there may be more to it.
    user:452, 2015-01-19T17:57:37Z (2015-01-24T19:43:38Z)
    And despite being reunited with Aisha, Gat is stuck in New Hades after the mission.Quest name for "Defeat Satan" mission
    user:452, 2015-01-19T18:10:04Z (2015-01-24T19:43:38Z)
    All of the endings are named "alt", so no clues there.
    • Alt_Heaven
    • Alt_Hell
    • Alt_New_Planet
    • Alt_New_Earth
    • Alt_Cosmic
    user:452, 2015-02-03T00:48:15Z

    Mission end screens
    There appear to be no mission end screens - normal unlockable popups are displayed after completing an objective.
    So, I guess we'll have to go with Quests in Saints Row: Gat out of Hell - at least until I can find out if there are mission names.
    Also, Quest Objectives can be selected independently, instead of sequentially.
    ...and Quest Objectives still appear to be missions.

    During the "Charge Halo" question, after each the "Collect the X Power", unlockable screens are shown, indicating that a mission has been completed. The next Objective in that quest is autostarted.

    In the PS livestream, they began with the first objective, I assume that if you complete any of the other objectives first, then the first one would autostart. No idea whether you can "quit" and objective and select another: but probably.
    user:452, 2015-01-13T19:49:39Z (2015-01-24T19:43:35Z)
    In the gamestop livestream, they go to the "Rescue vlad" target on the map instead of starting it through the quests menu, this is the "Collect the Aura Power" objective, and no quest autostarts upon completion.
    I think it's pretty stupid to call the objective "Collect the Aura Power", instead of "Rescue Vlad".
    The whole "list of objectives" thing on the whole really breaks the immersion in both Saints Row IV and this.
    One of the few things which Saints Row: The Third did right was to use the phone as the Mission starter: You call someone, and they give you something to do. You don't "Call Pierce and ask him how to Collect the Aura Power"
    user:452, 2015-01-16T17:32:45Z (2015-01-24T19:43:36Z)
    The final mission has a normal end screen.
    Mission name: Defeat Satan.
    Saints Row Gat out of Hell - Mission - Defeat Satan Complete.png
    user:452, 2015-01-19T17:59:49Z (2015-01-24T19:43:36Z)

    Stats screen does not have a stat for missions completed, but does have "Loyalty missions completed".
    • Marshalling Grounds is where Hotspots was.
    • Spires is where Flashpoints was.
    • Altars is where Stores Hacked was.
    At the beginning of the game, Gat falls 70-72ft - I paused as soon as possible, but i'm getting varying results when I start a new game:
    • 70.55ft
    • 71.82ft
    • Aliens = Demons
    • Wardens = Archdukes
    • Marauders = Legionnaries
    • Murderbots = Grenadiers
    • Command Cids = Sin Orbs?
    • Total Law Enforcement = Total Sinterpol Agents
    • Civilians = Husks
    Same number of enemy classes, that's convenient!
    Since Barnstorming skipped a game, I'm unsure if it was simply reactivated in the stats, or if it's a new entry.
    In Saints Row IV, there are 4 entries between Unarmed Kills and Vehicle Surfing Longest Time
    • Tk Throws
    • Cat & Mouse: Most Points Earned
    • Cat & Mouse: Cache Earned
    • Total Streaking Time
    In Gat out of Hell, there are 3 entries between Unarmed Kills and Vehicle Surfing Longest Time
    • Barnstorm Locations Found
    • Blackbeard Glyphs Collected
    • Blackbeard Chests Collected
    These are the only new stats that don't really correspond to old stats.
    user:452, 2015-01-23T12:40:46Z (2015-01-24T19:43:36Z)
    BUT, "Missions Completed" is still shown on the save/load screen.
    Although an autosave is made after the opening cutscene, it is not possible to save immediately. This is different, in all other games it is possible to save during the first mission.
    Upon exiting to the title screen and choosing continue, the opening cutscene plays, rather than starting from the autosave, this indicates that it is also the cutscene for the first "mission".
    user:452, 2015-01-23T13:36:23Z (2015-01-24T19:43:36Z)
    First mission:
    • Steal a Car
    • Go to Ultor
    If you access the Map:
    • Go to Map
    • Set GPS to Ultor
    During the first mission, "You Can't Access this Yet" on Sinterpol Armories.
    It is possible to pick up dropped weapons, and somehow Gat has a .45 Fletcher.
    It is not possible to quit during the first mission. After reaching the flight tutorial, it is possible to exist the quest, with the message "FAILED - The Quest was cancelled": no mission name. Fuck.
    • At this time, the autosave still reads 0 missions completed, 0% complete.
    • It is not possible to access the Map
    • It is not possible to just buy flight and fly.
    Objectives for this portion:
    • Collect Soul Clusters (4)
    • Access Arcane Menu, fly, fly, blah
    Map never becomes available, if you fly too far away, you get pulled back.
    Upon complete, save text reads
    • "Welcome to Hell"
    • 2 Missions completed
    • 7% completion
    Completed quests menu:
    • Welcome to Hell
      • Go to Hell
      • Spread your Wings
    Obviously, that's mission 1 and 2. Hopefully these have internal mission names, I'll know soon enough.
    user:452, 2015-01-23T13:49:24Z (2015-01-24T19:43:37Z)
    I'm currently mis-using the {{mission}} template on Quest pages until we can figure out how it all fits together.
    user:452, 2015-01-23T16:07:39Z (last edited: user:452, 2016-05-02T02:03:34Z)
    Exiting the "Rally Twins" target also just says "failed" and no mission name.
    user:452, 2015-01-23T18:56:27Z (2015-01-24T19:43:37Z)
    I assume that if you complete any of the other objectives first, then the first one would autostart.
    My assumption was correct: If you start one of the other objectives via the quest menu first, and complete it, then the first one autostarts.
    If you start the target via the map marker, nothing autostarts afterwards.
    user:452, 2015-01-30T00:46:30Z
    Optional Tutorials
    After unlocking the Summon power, there is a "Summon tutorial" prompt... so it looks amongst the things which have been removed, there has finally been an improvement!
    user:452, 2015-01-13T19:51:34Z (2015-01-24T19:24:32Z)
    When I first wrote "As in the Wages of Sin", I was technically speculating, but this has now been confirmed.
    user:452, 2015-01-14T23:35:39Z (2015-01-24T19:24:32Z)
    Someone forgot how to spell Stilwater.

    Gat out of Hell - playstation livestream - Diversion - Revenge.png Stilwater billboard.png

    user:452, 2015-01-14T23:47:03Z (last edited: user:452, 2016-01-04T04:58:04Z)
    Maybe they'll fix it by the game's release.
    WikiaIvan1997, 2015-01-15T17:26:19Z (2015-01-24T19:24:32Z)
    During the livestream, they showed a boxed copy, so I assume they were playing the disc from that box.
    user:452, 2015-01-15T17:32:24Z (2015-01-24T19:43:35Z)
    Incidentally, the spelling mistake is still in the released game.
    user:452, 2015-02-01T20:57:36Z
    The series has gone from
    • Saints Row: "Complete missions to unlock territory: required to complete game"
    • Saints Row 2: "Complete missions to unlock territory: required to complete game"
    • Saints Row: The Third: "Complete activities to unlock territory: completely optional"
    • Saints Row IV: "Same, with the motive of 'causing chaos to corrupt the system' ...but you don't really have to."
    and finally:
    • Gat out of Hell: "Complete activities to unlock territory: required to progress the story".
    I'm not saying I disagree, but it's certainly odd how things have changed.
    Edit: unlocking territory is not required to progress the story, as non-terrority diversions also progress the Satan's Wrath meter.
    user:452, 2015-01-15T00:10:31Z (last edited: user:452, 2016-04-21T22:42:37Z)
    Looking at it another way: they've gone back to "Earn respect to unlock more missions", but with territory switched around so that it's unlocked due to activities rather than missions.
    user:452, 2015-01-16T16:01:09Z (2015-01-24T19:43:35Z)
    For the record, I like that each territory is now a hood with a name.
    I think that City Takeover was one of the best improvements made in SRTT, but I thought that the arbitrary territories in SRTT and SRIV were dumb.
    But since each hood is relatively small and only contains one usable target/store/activity, creating an article for each of the 81 hoods may be excessive.
    I think that to start with, we should create an article for each district, with neighborhood redirects.
    Then later, if the information for each neighborhood grows significantly, we can split them.
    user:452, 2015-01-15T03:22:37Z (2015-01-24T19:24:30Z)
    Well, it's happened. Water has joined the list of removed features.
    The lava is solid, but you can still "warp to shore".
    user:452, 2015-01-15T21:28:01Z (2015-01-24T19:24:30Z)
    Gamespot livestream, 16m34s, Kate Nelson switches to the Lil' Croaker, explains how it works, and uses it until 17m22s.
    Dumbarse Gamestop guy obviously wasn't paying any fucking attention, as at 19m55s he acts like he hadn't already seen it in action.
    user:452, 2015-01-16T17:37:50Z (last edited: user:452, 2015-01-24T19:37:28Z)
    At 21m05s, Dumbarse misinterprets the question "do aliens go to hell" as an "interesting metaphysical question".
    The question is obviously asking "Are the Zin from Saints Row IV in New Hades".
    Dumbarse is then surprised when Kate says that they did consider about it.
    user:452, 2015-01-16T17:46:03Z (2015-01-24T19:24:30Z)
    • 25m10s, Kate demonstrates summoning an imp.
    • 7 seconds later, while still discussing summoning imps, Kate summons another imp, 2 seconds after that dumbarse says "what did you just do? you set something on the ground back there".
    user:452, 2015-01-19T16:38:12Z (2015-01-24T19:24:30Z)
    Apparently Gat out of Hell has leaked.
    Pirates are welcome to add information to the wiki, and spoilers are welcome as long as proof is provided.
    But please do not add instructions on how to pirate the game.
    user:452, 2015-01-17T02:46:55Z (last edited: user:452, 2016-04-21T22:42:46Z)
    Oh, cool, there was another livestream today, and it's still available here:
    user:452, 2015-01-17T02:57:45Z (2015-01-24T19:24:29Z)
    Haha, Nathan Fillion is God.
    user:452, 2015-01-19T17:50:18Z (2015-01-24T19:24:29Z)
    Apparently, and this is totally unconfirmed: The PS4 version does not contain Gat out of Hell on the disc, it only has a download code for it.
    user:452, 2015-01-19T19:54:16Z (last edited: user:452, 2016-04-21T22:42:53Z)

    user:452, 2015-01-19T22:51:38Z (2015-01-24T19:24:28Z) - all weapons, upgrades and 7 Deadly Sins weapons gameplay. Oh, and Genki.
    user:TheMoonLightman, 2015-01-19T23:31:15Z (2015-01-24T19:24:28Z)
    why has saints row games gone all super powers why don't they just get another like 3 in my opinion that is I still love the games that they make, 2015-01-20T21:19:22Z (2015-02-01T21:19:09Z)
    "(Character) was killed when Zinyak blew up the Earth" has been added to many articles.
    For now, I'm adding fact tags, but unless actual evidence is added that they were still alive at the time the Earth was destroyed, then this is speculation, and will be removed.
    user:452, 2015-01-22T16:18:03Z (2015-01-24T19:24:28Z)
    And remember, just because the game is released doesn't mean it's an "information without references" free-for-all.
    • Before release: All unreferenced information is removed, no speculation is allowed.
    • After release: All unreferenced information is marked with {{ref?}}, no speculation is allowed.
    Any information which is marked with a fact tag and does not receive a reference may be later removed. Usually unreferenced information is not removed for at least a month.
    user:452, 2015-01-22T17:09:29Z (2015-01-24T19:24:28Z)
    Health pickups return, and look identical to Saints Row IV.
    Enemies dropping Health pickups worked in The Simulation, but why are there virtual reality health pickups in Hell?
    user:452, 2015-01-23T13:51:49Z (2015-01-24T19:24:26Z)
    "19 Weapons" issue resolved: The final "Fully Upgrade all Weapons" count is now 20.
    This is exactly why all pre-release information must be referenced and marked with {{unconfirmed}}.
    If we had just put "There are 19 weapons in GooH" without a reference, people could accuse the wiki of being "wrong".
    The wiki reflected the currently available information, with evidence, and the upcoming tag explained that pre-release information may turn out to be false.
    user:452, 2015-01-23T14:18:11Z (last edited: user:452, 2016-03-27T16:02:59Z)
    Although they were so proud that they released a promo image for it, the "High Fryer" Ferris Wheel is not usable in any way.
    Gat can stand on the top of it as if it is a solid circle. *facepalm*
    (Can someone get a screenshot of this? kthx.)
    user:452, 2015-01-23T15:38:09Z (2015-01-24T19:43:33Z)
    Something like this?

    SRG Gat on top of High Fryer.png

    WildBrick142, 2015-01-23T19:15:49Z (last edited: user:452, 2015-02-02T05:10:30Z)
    user:452, 2015-01-23T19:23:53Z (2015-01-24T19:43:33Z)
    Wow. If there is a no Saints Row IV save file present, Gat out of Hell will not load.
    I just signed out of my profile, created a new one, and tried to start the game, and I get the error:
    "The save file could not be loaded because the file has been corrupted or is an invalid save file."
    There is NO save file, because it is a new profile.
    user:452, 2015-01-23T19:09:58Z (2015-01-24T19:24:25Z)
    Twice now, immediately after completing Welcome to Hell, I've flown to the east, towards the tutorial area, and the sky has gone grey and the lava has disappeared completely.
    Has anyone else seen this happen?
    user:452, 2015-01-23T19:33:09Z (2015-01-24T19:24:25Z)
    The "Gat Gear" trailer is a lame imitation of Top Gear. Top Gear did not actually review the Armchair-a-geddon, although the teaser and the full trailer were obviously designed to make people think they did, complete with an announcer doing a terrible Jeremy Clarkson impression.
    user:452, 2015-01-24T04:33:56Z (2015-01-24T19:24:25Z)
    Genki sometimes randomly spawns instead of an Archdemon, armed with "7 Deadly Weapons - Wrath : Ark of the Covenant"
    user:452, 2015-01-24T15:32:44Z (2015-01-24T19:24:25Z)
    Billboard: "Mark of the beast - tattoos and body mods" is Volition's way of saying "We know you like customization, so here's a billboard advertising something you can't have."
    user:452, 2015-01-25T02:51:56Z
    Marshalling Grounds are filled with lava until they are unlocked.
    user:452, 2015-01-25T03:52:28Z
    Cheats in Saints Row: Gat out of Hell will be a really short article.
    user:452, 2015-01-25T03:53:19Z
    There appear to be a number of Gat out of Hell-related voice command Easter Eggs.
    However, Volition claimed in the recent livestream that voice commands were only for Re-elected, and not Gat out of Hell.
    Can someone with an Xbox One or PS4 confirm that there are no Voice Commands for Gat out of Hell?
    user:452, 2015-01-25T17:59:54Z
    Fun fact: Vlad is called "Vlad" at all points during the game.
    There is an entry for the Homies menu named "VLAD THE IMPALER", but since there is no Homies menu in the game, this is never visible.
    While he is obviously based upon Vlad, and the unused Homies menu name is valid trivia, his name in the game is Vlad.
    edit: Ah, but we already have a Vlad, so Vlad (Saints Row 2) and Vlad (Saints Row: Gat out of Hell) it is!
    user:452, 2015-01-25T18:25:50Z (last edited: user:452, 2015-01-25T18:39:34Z)
    • There are 60 vehicles in vehicles.vpp_pc, but most are duplicates.
    • Incidentally, there are 107 vehicle definition files, all left over from SRIV.
    I've parsed the files and generated stats, variants and spawning changes, but I've run into a snag. Because there is no Garage, they didn't bother to update the display names, only the logos.
    Historically, this wiki has always used the defined Display Name, because this is what is used in the Garage.
    • Display_Name = HALBERD
    • Bitmap = l_comet
    So this time, we're going to have to go with the logo.
    Internal Defined Name Logo Notes
    car_2dr_demon Demon No custom logo Shows default L_Emu
    bike_standard02_cyber Cyber Estrada No custom logo Shows default L_Estrada
    heli_standard_02 Thompson No custom logo Shows default L_Thompson
    sp_stargate Stargate No logo defined Used in Pledge Rush and SRIV
    sp_tank01 Challenger No custom logo Shows default l_challenger
    sp_tank03 Crusader Leviathan! Confirmed in-game
    sp_gat01 Gatmobile No custom logo :( Shows default l_gatmobile
    truck_4dr_pickup04 Compensator No custom logo Shows default L_Compensator
    bike_standard02 Estrada Goat
    bike_heaven Estrada Goat
    car_2dr_compact04 Halberd Comet
    car_2dr_sports09 Torch Hellbat
    car_4dr_standard07 Churchill Corroda
    sp_ambulance01 Ambulance Rambulance
    sp_apc01 Bear Soul in One
    sp_limo01_glt Limo Machiavelli A Status Quo, not in SRIV
    suv_4dr_07 Taxi No custom Logo Available! Former Kayak - uses default L_Taxi
    truck_2dr_garbage01 Municipal Minotaur
    truck_2dr_monster01 Atlasbreaker Predaceptor
    There's a logo for a "Sinterpol Tank", but it's not defined in the vehicles files as being used.
    car_2dr_compact04      l_comet
    car_4dr_standard07     l_corroda
    bike_heaven            l_goat
    car_2dr_sports09       l_hellbat
    sp_tank03              l_leviathan
    sp_limo01_glt          l_machiavelli
    truck_2dr_garbage01    l_minotaur
    truck_2dr_monster01    l_predaceptor
    sp_ambulance01         l_rambulance
    sp_apc01               l_soul_in_one
    I would say that it was likely that the vehicles without logos defined were unused - however, the Taxi doesn't not have a custom logo defined, yet obviously is available, so... anything is possible. (Unless the spawning file says it isn't.)
    Okay, taxi logo mystery solved: The above logos were defined for variants, the taxi logo is defined for the base vehicle, as is everything else. If the Demon is obtained, it will have a l_emu logo, the same with all of the others without special logos defined.
    l_sinterpol_tank is referenced in ui_images.xtbl, but not by any other file, so it's not looking good for that tank.
    user:452, 2015-01-25T19:23:25Z (last edited: user:452, 2015-01-31T19:07:33Z)
    Demon is an Emu.
    DEMON    (car_2dr_demon)
    100% Average
          100% Option 1     standard
          100% Option 1     Hood1
          0%   Option 2     Hood2
      Licence Plate Letters
          100% JMM       Combo 1
      Licence Plate Numbers
          100% Option 1     Combo 2       5610
      Rear Bumper
          100% Option 1     Bumper_Rear1
          33%  Option 1
          33%  Option 2
          34%  Option 3
          100% Option 1     Spoiler1
          100% New Chance      Decal 1       Defroster_Black
          100% New Chance
                   Grime 1       grime 75
                   Grime 2       grime 100
                   Grime Value      grime 75
      Front Bumper
          100% Option 1     Bumper_F1
      Exhaust Tips
          100% Option 1     Exhaust1
          100% Nitrous      None
          100% Nitrous      None
      Decal 2
          100% Option 1     none
          100% Body
             Body Color1    Modern (any)
             Body Color2    Gloss Satin Bright White
             Trim Color1    Plastic Jet Black
             Trim Color2    Rubber Gray Medium
             Window Tint    Glass Tint 60%
             Misc. Color    Glass Tint 100%
             Mechanical Color  Glass Tint 40%
             Rim Color      Metal Stainless Steel
    EMU    (car_2dr_compact08)
    100% Average
          100% Option 1     standard
          100% Option 1     Hood1
          0%   Option 2     Hood2
      Licence Plate Letters
          100% JMM       Combo 1
      Licence Plate Numbers
          100% Option 1     Combo 2       5610
      Rear Bumper
          100% Option 1     Bumper_Rear1
          33%  Option 1
          33%  Option 2
          34%  Option 3
          100% Option 1     Spoiler1
          100% New Chance      Decal 1       Defroster_Black
          100% New Chance
                   Grime 1       grime 75
                   Grime 2       grime 100
                   Grime Value      grime 75
      Front Bumper
          100% Option 1     Bumper_F1
      Exhaust Tips
          100% Option 1     Exhaust1
          100% Nitrous      None
          100% Nitrous      None
      Decal 2
          100% Option 1     none
          100% Body
             Body Color1    Modern (any)
             Body Color2    Gloss Satin Bright White
             Trim Color1    Plastic Jet Black
             Trim Color2    Rubber Gray Medium
             Window Tint    Glass Tint 60%
             Misc. Color    Glass Tint 100%
             Mechanical Color  Glass Tint 40%
             Rim Color      Metal Stainless Steel
    id name group hostage park big AI speed nitro mass torque hitpoints frict steer
    pitch roll yaw file
    13 DEMON Standard Compact 1 0 1 65 75 1000 245 3000 0.015 50 35.0 0.3 0.3 0.4 car_2dr_demon
    13 EMU Standard Compact 1 0 1 65 75 1000 245 3000 0.015 50 35.0 0.3 0.3 0.4 car_2dr_compact08
    car_2dr_demon is not listed in spawn_info_groups, which means it doesn't randomly spawn.
    It also does not have a logo defined, which probably means it was scrapped.
    user:452, 2015-01-26T01:29:14Z (last edited: user:452, 2015-01-26T01:42:21Z)
    There's an Emu in the opening cutscene for Mayhem and it is the only time it appears in game. It may spawn in some parking space but I doubt that.
    user:TheMoonLightman, 2015-01-26T05:06:04Z
    Awesome, that must be it then - thanks!
    user:452, 2015-01-26T05:12:40Z
    • aura_coldfire
    • aura_vamp
    • aura_worship
    • blast_shadow
    • blast_soul
    • blast_stone
    • stomp_flash
    • stomp_force
    • stomp_vacuum
    • summon_imp
    • summon_titan
    • summon_tower
    Confirming what someone mentioned about there only being 3 elements for each.
    user:452, 2015-01-25T19:29:37Z
    Leviathan update: It may spawn on the Highway, during Fraud, when you have Adrenaline.
    That's what my spawning group tea leaves seem to say anyway.
    Happy hunting!
    edit: The Leviathan is the Sinterpol Tank. Apparently the "Sinterpol Tank" logo was a placeholder.
    user:452, 2015-01-26T02:25:44Z (last edited: user:452, 2015-01-31T19:05:18Z)
    Appearantely, looks like one of the radio stations intended to be in the game, GenX, has been discovered inside the game files! I wonder if there are other radio stations there too, like the Mix?
    WikiaIvan1997, 2015-01-26T07:53:11Z
    Instead of wondering, perhaps you should ask.
    The answer is no.
    user:452, 2015-01-26T13:35:20Z
    It is not possible to look around while flying - unlike previous games, the "advanced flight controls" option has been removed.
    user:452, 2015-01-30T14:35:54Z
    After completing the first mission, I've done absolutely nothing but fly around and collect Soul Clusters, Audio Tomes, Commentaries and Barnstorming.
    Then Dane suddenly reacted as if I've been causing chaos and the musical suddenly started playing.
    Loaded my previous save and found a few Barnstorming locations instead of the last commentary: confirmed that just Barnstorming "Gets Satan's attention".
    Also, confirmed that as soon as Dane starts talking, it's impossible to save the game. (But since it autosaved after the previous barnstorming location - it's easy to just kill the game open the menu and reload the autosave.)
    Reloaded again, explored all hoods instead, Dane tells me "Great job tearing up hell".
    Actually, I'm still at 81/82 hoods, i'm not sure what I did this time.
    It appears to be from reaching 15% completion, regardless of method.
    "Satan didn't have much time to react to the war Gat was waging"
    What war?
    user:452, 2015-01-30T17:02:37Z (last edited: user:452, 2015-01-30T20:48:28Z)
    And if you it the 2/3 trigger before meeting people, they become kidnapped immediately after they give you your power, disappearing before your eyes.
    Also, power tutorial is unavailable.
    I saved the twins, but even though she's kidnapped, Kiki sent me voice message about Playa being in a soul cystral
    user:452, 2015-01-31T20:19:00Z (last edited: user:452, 2015-01-31T20:21:53Z)
    I don't see a way to view completed challenges.
    user:452, 2015-01-30T20:56:33Z
    I'd noticed the lack of Vehicle Surfing prompt while standing on various vehicles, but apparently they just increased the delay until the prompt appears.
    user:452, 2015-01-30T21:08:54Z
    The undersides of some of the highways are not fully solid, and can be flown into and stood inside. I got back out of way, got trapped in another.
    user:452, 2015-01-30T21:55:35Z
    I'd never say this to the Boss... but sometimes I wish I could just start over. Tabula Rasa. A whole new plot. An entirely different life.
    — Johnny Gat

    user:452, 2015-01-31T22:25:27Z (last edited: user:452, 2015-02-12T01:21:01Z)
    All comments have now been recovered and re-ordered into the original posting order.
    user:452, 2015-02-01T21:39:07Z (last edited: user:452, 2015-02-01T21:39:18Z)
    Wow...the endings...kinda suck.
    Jim Logan, 2015-05-10T22:34:01Z
    Well, I suppose that is a fact.
    user:452, 2015-05-11T14:53:30Z
    Either this was a recent patch or something else, but the Wages symbol doesn't appear anywhere on the screen now.
    Anyone encountered this?
    user:TheMoonLightman, 2015-05-10T23:22:40Z
    One day I'm going to catch that fucking ghost bus.
    — Gat idle line

    user:452, 2015-07-02T23:12:54Z
    I was trying to determine the distance of the initial fall into hell, and have discovered that spinning the camera and arming and disarming Johnny's gun without moving increases the "total distance travelled" stat.
    user:452, 2016-01-03T16:16:20Z (last edited: user:452, 2016-01-03T16:18:08Z)
    Waaaaaaaaaaait. Character appearance imported from local save file?!
    As in the number 1 missing feature I've wanted in all previous games? It's finally being implemented now that The Protagonist has become non-playable?!
    Previously, this question could have been easily answered by "too difficult/lazy to implement", but now that it has been proven possible: Why wasn't this available in Saints Row IV?
    user:452, 2014-09-08T13:22:34Z (2015-01-24T19:24:27Z)
    "7 Deadly Weapons - Sloth" is located in Glutton's End Spirit Bilge, right next to the 666 building.
    user:452, 2014-11-01T22:01:35Z (2015-02-01T21:19:09Z)
    So... they hid an awesome weapon in the world, then immediately show everyone the location in every gameplay video... just like they did with the Loud Locust.
    I certainly hope there are other secrets to find.
    user:452, 2015-01-19T16:43:14Z (2015-02-01T21:19:09Z)
    There are no Zin in New Hades.
    user:452, 2014-11-01T22:04:52Z (2015-02-01T21:27:19Z)
    Will there be a radio in the game with new songs to listen to and new radio stations as well, 2014-12-13T20:37:45Z (2015-02-01T21:27:19Z)
    It is kinda odd that you replied to this comment.
    There appears to be no radio.
    user:452, 2014-12-13T21:02:26Z (2015-02-01T21:27:19Z)
    There are no boats or aircraft in the game - continuing the recent tradition of removing vehicles types.
    There are motorcycles. (Resembles a Melbourne, but the name has not been confirmed.)
    edit: Motorcycles can be driven.
    user:452, 2014-11-01T22:06:59Z (2015-02-01T21:27:18Z)
    This one?

    Goat motorcycle GOOH.png

    user:TheMoonLightman, 2014-11-01T23:09:12Z (2015-02-01T21:27:18Z)
    Which video is that image from?
    user:452, 2014-11-23T20:45:31Z (2015-02-01T21:27:18Z)
    user:TheMoonLightman, 2014-11-23T22:10:27Z (2015-02-01T21:27:18Z)
    Thanks, I hadn't seen that one.
    user:452, 2014-11-23T23:09:28Z (2015-02-01T21:27:19Z)
    When Smoked, the screen doesn't change colour, it only zooms out and fades to black.
    user:452, 2014-11-01T22:09:29Z (2015-02-01T21:19:08Z)
    There is no interaction with the Homies on The Ship during the game. So, none of the usual Homies can be Homies, and it is not possible to return.
    However, there are end-game cutscenes back on The Ship. (Thanks to Jim Boone for leaking that.)
    user:452, 2014-11-01T22:14:46Z (2015-01-23T02:41:39Z)
  • Saints Row IV facts

    I was going to do a write-up of what I learned in a recent gameplay video, but here's a more general post with a range of facts about Saints Row IV.

    This wiki is the largest and most detailed archive of information about the Saints Row series, but it has never been claimed to be the most up-to-date, or to be a news site.
    It's built by players, for players - if you want to add news, feel free!

    Pages about Saints Row IV are being updated as new information becomes available, but let's make a single list of everything we know about Saints Row IV so far - for easy reference.

    If you have something to add to list, leave a comment - stating the fact, and linking to the source of the fact - and I'll add it to the list.

    Topic Information Source
    Weapons in Saints Row IV There is a "Tentacle Bat" weapon Image[1]
    Zero Saints Thirty Cyrus Temple reappears as a terrorist. Image[2]
    Enter the Dominatrix This joke-cum-expansion-cum-sequel will be released as a DLC for SRIV Joystiq
    Freckle Bitch's There is a "Freckle Bitch's" skin for the Guardsman AR Image[3]
    Challenge The "Abduct-o-ray" will be unlocked after completing one challenge. Image[4]
    Challenge There are 65 Challenges, but only 59 are currently known. Image[5]
    Genki Girls The Genki Girls are unlockable homies
    (3 silver medals in "Super-Powered Fight Club")
    Superpowers There is an upgrade to allow running on water
    (3 silver medals in "Speed Rift")
    Superpowers It is possible to mind-control enemies. Image[9]
    CID A small floating robot is called a "C.I.D.", sometimes "CID", meaning "Control and Interface Device". At least one is hacked to become friendly. Image[10]
    Murderbot Humanoid robots are called "Murderbots", there are at least two types - "mine-throwing" and "laser-minigun" Image[11]
    Audio logs There are 39 Audio logs to find. Image[12]
    Infuego XL There is a monster truck version of the Infuego, and possibly other monster trucks. Image[13]
    Weapons in Saints Row IV Each weapon has at least 3 variants with at least 3 skins each.

    Edit: this is the only thing on this list which is false, and it's notable that it never had an image. Most weapons have at least 3 costumes. Most alien weapons only have one. A few weapons have 1 costume and 1 skin.
    Cellphone - now called "Hub" Saintsbook is gone, replaced by a Powers menu to upgrade Superpowers Image[14]
    Cellphone The mission menu has been overhauled. Side quests are called "Side Quests". Challenges have been moved. Image[15]
    City Takeover Vehicle Theft and Assassination are now part of City Takeover, and are displayed on the map as "Targets". Image[16]
    City Takeover There are 32 Targets in total, as well as 32 activities, 34 stores, and 10 Cribs.
    City Takeover Magarac Island is now part of Sunset Park
    Customization Items A Han Solo outfit is available at Nobody Loves Me, under the name "Puckish Rogue". Image[17]
    Homies Loyalty missions unlock superpowers for that Homie, plus an outfit. Youtube interview
    Garage Vehicles can be added to the Garage by holding the down button, and retrieved at any time. Interview
    Gameplay In addition to the return of the Text Adventure, there is also a 2D side scroller. Interview
    Mr. Sunshine Returns as the DJ for 103.6 Four20 Four-20 103.6. Complex

    As usual, information without a source for verification is useless, so be sure to include a link or an image.

    1. Image:

      Challenge 52 Tentacle Bat Beatdowns

    2. Image:

      Zero Saints Thirty - Chase Cyrus objective

    3. Image:

      Weapon - Rifles - Burst Rifle - Guardsman AR - Freckle Bitch's

    4. Image:

      Challenge 01 Complete One Other Challenge

    5. Image:

      Challenge 09 Complete All Other Challenges

    6. Image:

      Hub - challenges overview - 59 Total

    7. Image:

      Challenge 18 Super-Powered Fight Club Silver Medals

    8. Image:

      Challenge 24 Speed Rift Silver Medals

    9. Image:

      Challenge 38 Enemies Mind-Controlled

    10. Image:

      Challenge 54 Destroy CIDs

    11. Image:

      Challenge 55 Destroy Murderbots

    12. Image:

      Challenge 61 Audio Logs Collected

    13. Image:

      Challenge 20 Vehicular Mayhem Silver Medals

    14. Image:

      Hub Menu - Main

    15. Image:

      Side Quests - Simulated Instruction

    16. Image:

      Virus collection named on map screen in livestream

    17. Image:

      Nobody Loves Me - Puckish Rogue Outfit in Saints Row IV


    Pre-release information timeline.

    Date Source Type Link/notes
    2013-03-22 outsidexbox Video Everything We Know So Far - Trailer Analysis, Interviews
    2013-03-22 usingwhs Video interview with Scott Philips
    2013-03-25 gamereactorTV Video Interview
    2013-03-26 PressPlayOnline Video PAX East 2013 Interview
    2013-04-18 The Game Station Video Pax East Interview
    2013-03-15 joystiq Saints Row 4 gets pimpin' August 20
    2013-03-22 Joystick Volition explains relationship between Saints Row 4 and 'Enter the Dominatrix'
    2013-03-22 Inside Gaming Video East SteveJaros interview
    2013-03-23 Destructoid Saints Row IV has a 'fuck ton more' content than SR3
    2013-03-23 IGN Saints Row 4 Had Stephen Colbert, Dragons, Monkey Summons
    2013-03-23 CJPlays13 Video PAX East Interview w/ Steve Jaros
    2013-03-27 Volition Video Announce Teaser
    2013-03-29 HipHopGamer1 Video "This Game Is Bringing The Fun Back To The Industry" PAX EAST 2013 Interview
    2013-04-12 polygon Agent of mayhem: the life and near death of Saints Row's Volition
    2013-04-26 OXM Scans?
    2013-05-07 Volition Video Meet the President trailer
    2013-05-09 Volition Video PAX Demo
    2013-05-23 Volition Video Hail to the Chief #1: Saints Force One
    2013-06-06 Volition Video War for Humanity
    2013-06-10 gametrailers Video E3 2013: First-Look Demo (Jim Boone)
    2013-06-10 gametrailers Video E3 2013: First-Look Demo (David Bianchi and Jim Boone)
    2013-06-11 NotoriousGamers Video OFFICIAL GAMEPLAY *NEW* with Jim Boone interview
    2013-06-11 GamerHubTV Video E3 2013 Preview Interview With Volition Steve Jaros
    2013-06-11 destructoid article Saints Row IV is going to be the best superhero game ever
    2013-06-11 usingwhs Video Never Before Seen Gameplay - Part 1
    2013-06-11 usingwhs Video Never Before Seen Gameplay - Part 2
    2013-06-11 gametrailers Video You Are the President
    2013-06-12 IGN (340PM) Video Gameplay Demo - E3 2013 (11:40)
    2013-06-12 IGN Video Offscreen Demo Gameplay - E3 2013
    2013-06-12 escapistmagazine article From President to Superhero
    2013-06-12 Rev3Games Video Gameplay Walkthrough and Interview with Steve Jaros
    2013-06-12 GamesRadar Video Blackhole gun and Lightsabres - Gameplay E3 2013
    2013-06-13 gamespot Video The Zin Empire - E3 2013 Gameplay
    2013-06-13 OXM E3 impressions: hands-on
    2013-06-13 gamespot (1220AM) Video Saint's Row IV - E3 2013 Stage Demo
    2013-06-13 gameological Steve Jaros, creative director
    2013-06-16 GamePodunk Video E3 2013: Gameplay
    2013-06-17 gameinformer Taking Silliness To New Heights
    2013-06-17 AngryJoeShow Video Angry Joe Interview
    2013-06-18 Smosh Games Video SUPER POWERS (E3 2013 Dope! or Nope)
    2013-06-19 Nerdy Show Video E3 Interview: Fucking Shit up
    2013-06-28 Volition Video E3 in-game walkthrough
    2013-07-03 Volition Video Independence Day Trailer
    2013-07-03 evilsourcegaming Video New Gameplay (Preview)
    2013-07-03 evilsourcegaming Article Early Preview
    2013-07-03 venturebeat Why I will spend more hours playing Saints Row IV than any other 2013 release
    2013-07-17 Volition Video Gat is Back
    2013-07-20 Twitch Video comiccon livestream with Jaros and Troy Baker (At 2:36)
    2013-07-20 Skyline 925 Video Comic Con 2013 SR4 Interview
    2013-07-21 gameinformer Voice Cast Mouths Off At Comic-Con
    2013-07-22 Volition Video Hail to the Chief #2: Animal Protection Act
    2013-07-24 Volition Video Hail to the Chief #3: Weapon of Mass Abduction
    2013-07-25 thesixthaxis Interview: Talking All Things Saints Row With Jim Boone
    2013-07-26 Volition Video Hail to the Chief #4: The President Can
    2013-08-01 Gamespot (1100) Video livestream
    2013-08-01 IGN (1330) Video livestream
    2013-08-01 Rev3 (1530) Video livestream
    2013-08-02 Volition Video Dev Diary #1: A Love Song to the fans
    2013-08-01 Reddit AMA We are Jim and Scott from the Volition team
    2013-08-02 Machinima Video NEW GAMEPLAY! Character Creator! - Inside Gaming
    2013-08-06 Volition Video Inauguration Station
    2013-08-06 MrVg247 Video All New Gameplay - Opening Mission Revealed
    2013-08-09 Volition Video Dev Diary #2: What Happens in Space...
    2013-08-13 Volition Video Dev Diary #3: The Wheels of the Spaceship Go Round and Round
    2013-08-16 Volition Video Dev Diary #4: This Is What Happens...
    2013-08-20 Volition Video Accolade Trailer

    452, 2013-07-23T23:36:43Z (last edited: 452, 2016-10-10T18:10:39Z)

    I'll be updating this later with new information after I watch the today's videos.
    Suggestions of other things to add are welcome.
    452, 2013-08-01T20:32:36Z
    Gamespot livestream (+ Rev3 livestream)
    Changing the skins on the Dubstep gun changes the dubstep music playing while fireing.
    Sirenixprime29, 2013-08-02T01:03:30Z (last edited: 452, 2013-08-02T17:58:53Z)
    I'm glad they confirmed that. Until now I was unsure whether it was linked to skins, or if it was separate.
    All the livestreams show the same 3 skins for the Dubstep Gun, hopefully there will be more unlocked later. They say that there are more in general, but they don't specifically say there are more for the Dubstep Gun.
    452, 2013-08-05T02:00:31Z
    As we all now know, there are not additional tracks, but there other other DLC dubstep guns.
    This is why gameplay previews and hype suck.
    They showed that there are different weapons costumes, so I - and likely others - naturally assumed that they were giving us a preview, and that there were more that we were not being shown, only to be disappointed.
    Since there were some weapons which did have unlockable skins, I don't see any reason why they all don't.
    452, 2016-03-27T12:58:58Z
    Rev3 livestream
    After completing Pierces Loyalty mission "Brotherhood", Brotherhood leader Maero is unlocked as a homie. Im assuming thats going to be the same with DJ Veteran Child, Tanya, and other former gang leaders from previous games. 
    Sirenixprime29, 2013-08-02T01:34:14Z (last edited: 452, 2013-08-02T17:58:30Z)
    Sweet - which video is that from, I haven't seen that one yet.
    I'm documenting the gamestop footage at the moment, while downloading the IGN and rev3 videos.
    452, 2013-08-02T03:29:35Z
    Its from the rev3 video
    Sirenixprime29, 2013-08-02T03:38:27Z
    Gamespot livestream
    Store Ownership is now performed by *sigh* bioshock-style pipe-dream hacking. *facepalm*
    I can't tell if they're intending it to be funny. I can't see how you could successfully "implement a lame feature ironically" without just being lame yourself, but they don't lampshade it in the preview footage as being a deliberately stupid feature.
    Where's your "fun trumps all" now?
    452, 2013-08-02T03:27:57Z (last edited: 452, 2013-08-02T17:57:10Z)
    They're definitely not trying to be ironic, since some of them are actually hard.
    452, 2013-09-01T15:00:38Z
    Incidentally, here are the URLs to download today's livestreams:
    Things revealed in multiple videos should be attributed to which ever video was broadcast first. Which is why I'm taking screenshots of everything from every video before uploading any screenshot from any video. Once I've sorted through the hundreds of screenshots, I'll be able to properly attribute what happened first. But I'm still having trouble downloading the full gamestop video. 3 hours remaining...
    452, 2013-08-02T03:31:26Z (last edited: 452, 2013-08-03T13:19:19Z)
    Previously, I've had pretty good luck with twitch tv links, but for some reason these seem to be getting cut off at 30 mins for me.
    It's times like these I wish I had a faster internet connection so I didn't have to wait so long to find these things out.
    The IGN link is full, Rev3 link is cut off at 30 mins. I'll try to fix this.
    If anyone knows of alt links, let me know. If anyone with a fast internet connection would like to volunteer to check downloads and report back, let me know.
    452, 2013-08-02T12:25:10Z
    Gamespot livestream
    Volition devs call the Crib ship "The Nebucha-Normandy" - a portmanteau of the Nebuchadnezzar from The Matrix and the Normandy from Mass Effect.
    In-game, the ship apparently "has no name". That doesn't help us here on the wiki, so I say we adopt Volition's name for it.
    Hopefully it's actually called "Nebuchanormandy" in the game files, which will make it easier to justify using as the article title. As well as deciding whether it should be Nebucha-Normandy, NebuchaNormandy or Nebuchanormandy.
    Btw, the NebuchaNormandy appears to be parked inside the Zin mothership. Screenshots forthcoming.
    452, 2013-08-02T04:15:54Z (last edited: 452, 2013-08-02T17:57:21Z)
    I've not, thus far, found any references to "Nebuchanormandy" in the game files. It's "The Ship".
    452, 2013-09-01T15:01:27Z
    Gamespot livestream
    Open door icons are now Zin hand-prints. Even in the real world.
    edit: Confirmed. Even at the start of the game, before you even know about the Simulation.
    452, 2013-08-02T04:18:30Z (last edited: 452, 2013-09-18T16:36:14Z)
    Gamespot livestream
    Romance: "In Saints Row, all you have to do is ask".
    452, 2013-08-02T04:20:00Z (last edited: 452, 2013-08-02T17:57:34Z)
    Gamespot livestream
    In-game, Keith David's name is Vice President. Meaning our article name is wrong.
    edit: Confirmed. "Talk to Vice President" etc. And in many of the game files, he is referred to only as "VP". Just like Burt Reynolds is only referred to as "Mayor"
    It's likely that they named those files before they had confirmed who the Vice President would be.
    452, 2013-08-02T04:22:55Z (last edited: 452, 2013-09-18T16:38:12Z)
    Gamespot livestream
    Mission choices are not returning.
    edit: Not entirely true. There's the "choose the red door" choice, but that's not exactly the same.
    452, 2013-08-02T04:37:13Z (last edited: 452, 2013-09-18T16:38:46Z)
    Gamespot livestream
    When a Warden appears, everyone else drops dead immediately.
    (I don't think that sounds very fun.)
    In a Warden fight, the Warden has a shield which must be disabled using your own super powers. Once the shield is down, they can be damaged with normal weapons. The shield comes back after around 5 seconds.
    452, 2013-08-02T04:42:52Z (last edited: 452, 2013-08-02T17:57:47Z)
    (I don't think that sounds very fun.)
    And now that I've played it: it isn't very fun at all.
    So I'm happily killing Zin and Murderbots, but if i kill too many, they all explode and i have to fight a warden. Lame.
    452, 2013-09-01T14:57:06Z
    Gamespot livestream
    There are thin Zin specialists, who have super powers.
    Murderbots drop the "Lasergun Arm" Temporary Weapon, which means that Murderbots must either be a type of specialist or brute.
    edit: I thought I was wrong about this for a while, since the "Arm"s are unlockable, but they are temporary when dropped by a Murderbot. I also have two of one of them in my Weapons Cache, not sure what's up with that.
    452, 2013-08-02T04:46:08Z (last edited: 452, 2013-09-18T16:46:22Z)
    IGN livestream
    Someone at Volition really wanted a "poo blast" super power, but they had to draw the line.
    452, 2013-08-02T17:56:43Z (last edited: 452, 2013-08-02T17:58:02Z)
    IGN livestream
    Volition messed up, and referred to the Magarac Island statue as "The statue of Joe Magarac".
    While Magarac Island is named after the real-life "Joe Magarac", in-game, the character is named "Joe Steel" and Steelport is named after him.
    In the mission where the statue appears, there is an open door at the bottom which does not appear in Saints Row: The Third.
    Edit: and the door doesn't appear normally in IV either.
    Also, they reference both Ghostbusters 1 and 2 with the Giant Saints Flow can, and with bringing a statue to life respectively.
    452, 2013-08-02T18:11:53Z (last edited: 452, 2016-03-27T13:02:59Z)
    Saints Row facebook
    link to facebook post
    Description: We're also LIVE on GameSpot with Steve Jaros from Volition right now!
    Link to gamespot in the facebook post
    Description: Watch as Caro and Lead Designer David Bianchi take you through some Saints Row IV gameplay.
    Apparently, the official Saints Row facebook page does not know who Steve Jaros is.
    452, 2013-08-02T19:18:06Z (last edited: 452, 2013-08-02T19:18:40Z)
    Zombies appear in Nytefall, whoever it was that previously said there were no Zombies in the game should never be trusted again. I'll have to rewatch all videos so far and find it.
    Edit: It was apparently Jim Boone
    452, 2013-08-02T19:33:43Z (last edited: 452, 2016-03-27T12:53:08Z)
    The IGN livestream states that "Executive producer Jim Boone joins IGN editors Daemon Hatfield and Ryan McCaffrey for an inside look at the ever evolving and highly anticipated Saint's[sic] Row IV" (in the video description), but they are joined by David Bianchi, not Jim Boone.
    Moozipan Cheese, 2013-08-03T15:27:52Z
    IGN livestream, 58:00+
    It is possible to go into the ruins of cribs, they specifically show jumping into the Saints HQ.'
    While many previous videos have had the dissolving cribs visible, this is the first time that it has been shown that it is possible to jump into them.
    452, 2013-08-04T16:17:49Z
    Rev3 livestream, 34:00+
    The Penetrator is not on the official weapon roster, but if you search hard enough, you'll find what you're looking for.
    — David Bianchi

    Therefore, it's a skin for the baseball bat.
    edit: I called this wrong. While it made sense at the time, now that I know how costumes and skins work, it's obvious that it could never have been possible.
    When you pick up a weapon, what you pick up is whatever skin you have previously selected. So if you previously selected the "Block Gun" costume for the Sniper Rifle, and pick up the McManus 2020's dropped in "Asha's VIP", you will be using the "Block Gun".
    It's not possible to pick up a costume/skin which you did not already have.
    When you pick up a weapon, you immediately have access to all costumes and skins, with 2 exceptions:
    • Additional skins can be unlocked as rewards
    • Additional costumes/models can be unlocked via DLC
    I think this was a poor gameplay choice. I liked the "gotta collect them all" aspect of weapon acquisition in previous games, and I feel that it would have been more rewarding to obtain costumes/skins one by one.
    452, 2013-08-04T19:32:38Z (last edited: 452, 2013-09-18T16:52:05Z)
    Rev3 livestream 35:40+
    David Bianchi says you will not be forced to do activities. He goes on to say that the forced storyline "sampler" activities in Saints Row: The Third was something they identified that they didn't want to make people do.
    452, 2013-08-04T19:39:04Z
    David Bianchi was wrong. There are several forced activities, including Blazin.
    452, 2013-09-01T14:53:23Z (last edited: 452, 2013-09-18T16:52:56Z)
    Rev3 livestream 37:00+
    David Bianchi says there are over 200 unlockables.
    • Saints Row 2 had 128
    • Saints Row: The Third had 88
    452, 2013-08-04T19:42:16Z
    This is an Obi-Wan Kenobi "certain point of view" answer.
    What do you can an "unlockable"?
    -Things which are rewards for completing missions/sidequests/activities
    -That, and Upgrades?
    -If you include Upgrades, why not everything you can buy?
    There are 187 "things which are unlocked as rewards". Which includes "You have unlocked harder instances of Blazin" - which I think is stretching the term, especially since the Medium and Hard instances aren't even locked in SRIV.
    (That 187 figure may be incorrect, there have already been several purchasable upgrades which I had mistakenly miscategorised)
    452, 2013-09-18T17:05:21Z (last edited: 452, 2013-09-18T17:06:02Z)
    Rev3 livestream 57:00
    Someone asked if there were multiple endings. They did not answer the question, but the answer is YES, as revealed in the Achievements and Trophies in Saints Row IV
    The rev3 livestream has the dumbest questions of the 3 live streams, with many people asking things which have been confirmed many times.
    452, 2013-08-04T21:11:12Z (last edited: 452, 2013-08-04T21:11:43Z)
    Rev3 livestream 1:04:00
    There are no boats.
    Edit: There are boats in the game files. There are no docks in the game, and no boats which spawn in the game.
    So, there technically are boats, but also technically aren't.
    452, 2013-08-04T21:48:09Z (last edited: 452, 2013-09-18T17:06:51Z)
    Rev3 livestream 1:08:48
    There are apparently 30 weapons in SRIV.
    (Psst, There were 50 weapons in SR2)
    452, 2013-08-04T23:14:41Z (last edited: 452, 2013-08-04T23:15:21Z)
    At the end of the game (SPOILER WARNING!!!!!) Zinyak blows up the earth. (Video) It is one of the multiple endings, I guess. (It probably gives Imperator or You Chose... Poorly Achievement)
    WildBrick142, 2013-08-04T23:20:39Z
    That's weird, how are they allowed to post that now?
    452, 2013-08-04T23:27:37Z
    That's not the ending. It's in the beginning of the game and it gives you Don't Panic., 2013-08-05T00:13:36Z
    Who says?
    452, 2013-08-05T00:50:58Z
    Says Matt Miller during Nytefall (10:41, "now that the Earth is gone, there'll be no new stories!")
    Says Dave Bianchi (albiet accidentally) ("before the world went kabl-- er, went to hell")
    Says Zinyak's propaganda.
    Says the achievement list you suspended me over (Don't Panic is a goddamn Hitchhiker's Guide the Galaxy reference in which, guess what, the Earth gets blown the fuck up by aliens)., 2013-08-05T01:06:04Z
    You were blocked for removing valid information, that block expired a month ago.
    Dave Bianchi really messed up there, nicely spotted. That was his third livestream of the day, so he was probably getting tired by that point.
    Yes, I know all about HHGTTG, but the presence of the achievement on it's own didn't automatically mean the earth was going to be destroyed. Although, did you know that hitch-hikers started out as "The ends of the earth", and they were just going to destroy the earth in different ways? Then after he began writing the first way, he kinda got carried away and ran with it.
    Anyway: Worst. President. Ever.
    452, 2013-08-05T01:21:40Z (last edited: 452, 2013-08-05T01:24:33Z)
    In the video, they choose to leave Birk hanging - then Birk ignores the phone call.
    It looks like we now have proof that the choices actually do something.
    edit: This was disappointingly not how it looked.
    452, 2013-08-05T01:57:27Z (last edited: 452, 2013-09-18T17:07:45Z)
    Theory: Ergo, you either die of hunger or cancer in the ending, depending on what you ended with Keith David.
    Moozipan Cheese, 2013-08-05T02:04:58Z
    It turns out that Oleg and Josh think it's a prank call. (Video)
    WildBrick142, 2013-08-15T17:31:14Z
    Yes: The Real World
    452, 2013-08-15T17:37:29Z
    I remember that the Glitch Gun was shown in one of the recent videos, but I don't remember which.
    Does anyone know?
    452, 2013-08-09T03:03:32Z
    I believe it was shown off as a blast power in the Rev3Games Stream.
    David Dooda, 2013-08-13T09:08:55Z
    Oh yeah, I remember now, thanks!
    Apparently it started out as a Glitch Gun, but got turned into a Element for Blast. Same with the Shrink Ray becoming Shrink Stomp.
    452, 2013-08-13T09:17:31Z
    Confirmed Romances: Shaundi, Pierce, Kinzie, Asha, Matt, Benjamin, Gat.
    Lombus, 2013-08-11T21:56:35Z
    Achievements in Saints Row IV confirmed all of those.
    452, 2013-08-11T21:57:49Z
    Ah ok, I didn't check the achievements out :P I guess they're doble confirmed then.
    Lombus, 2013-08-12T08:42:54Z
    There are 114 vehicles in Saints Row IV.
    33 are new. Or at least revamped/reskinned.
    There are 81 returning vehicles:
    2 from SR1
    • Fer de Lance
    • Rattler
    8 from SR2
    • Atlasbreaker
    • Betsy
    • Eiswolf
    • Hollywood
    • Mockingbird
    • Mongoose
    • Stiletto
    • Swindle
    3 from SR2 DLC
    • Lightning
    • Pulse
    • Relic
    55 from SRTT
    • AB Destroyer
    • Ambulance
    • Anchor
    • Atlantica
    • Attrazione
    • Bear
    • Blade
    • Bootlegger
    • Bulldog
    • Challenger
    • Churchill
    • Commander
    • Compensator
    • Criminal
    • Crusader
    • DonoVan
    • Eagle
    • Emu
    • Estrada
    • F-69 VTOL
    • Flatbed
    • Gat Mobile
    • Halberd
    • Hammerhead
    • Hammer
    • HeliMS05 (Eagle from Party Time)
    • Infuego
    • Justice
    • Kaneda
    • Kayak
    • Kenshin
    • Knoxville
    • Lockdown
    • Miami
    • N-Forcer
    • Oppressor
    • Peacemaker
    • Peterliner
    • Phoenix
    • Pony Cart
    • Raycaster
    • Shark
    • Snipes 57
    • Solar
    • Sovereign
    • Specter
    • Steelport Municipal
    • Temptress
    • Thompson
    • Titan
    • Toad
    • Torch
    • Tornado
    • Vulture
    • Woodpecker
    • X-2 Phantom
    • Varsity
    11 from SRTT DLC
    • Angry Tiger
    • Bloody Cannoness
    • Genkimobile
    • Nyte Blayde
    • Sad Panda
    • Saints Crusader
    • Saints N-Forcer
    • Saints VTOL
    • Salem
    • Sexy Kitten
    • Verminator
    452, 2013-08-12T03:19:33Z (last edited: 452, 2013-08-12T11:55:23Z)
    Nice list but most of vehicles are from SRTT and its DLCs. Where did you get it anyways?
    TheMoonLightman, 2013-08-12T10:29:30Z
    Yes. What did you expect?
    • Most of the vehicles in Saints Row 2 were from Saints Row.
    • Most of the vehicles in Saints Row: The Third were from Saints Row 2.
    452, 2013-08-12T11:28:13Z
    In mission 6, there's going to be a Free Falling gameplay section. Probably.
    edit: The Free Falling mission turned out to be the final one, so it's kinda odd that it was internally named as "Mission 6".
    Voltion has a habit of not update the internal filenames after things change it the game. Which is good for the wiki, as it gives us all kinds of trivia we wouldn't have if the cleaned up after themselves.
    452, 2013-08-12T03:31:09Z (last edited: 452, 2013-09-18T16:35:03Z)
    It seems that Phillipe Loren is a fucking unlockable homie. If so, I'm going to kill that french bastard over and over.
    I guess it makes sense, since Maero and Veteran Child are too.
    Donnie is also confirmed as a Homie on the Ship.
    edit: This was based on the fact that Loren has a Homie head, recruitment audio, and hilarious Homie Conversation audio.
    Donnie also has a Homie head, and random speech lines regarding "being stuck on this ship" - although he does not have Homie Conversation audio.
    Apparently Volition decided to cut it, which makes this information no less accurate. In fact, it makes it awesome trivia.
    452, 2013-08-12T15:12:09Z (last edited: 452, 2013-09-18T16:33:05Z)
    Also, Tanya.
    And Donnie.
    And Lin.
    And Sharp.
    452, 2013-08-12T15:46:48Z (last edited: 452, 2013-08-12T16:10:31Z)
    What about Lin and Sharp? :c 
    I doubt it ._.
    Saints95, 2013-08-15T21:30:48Z
    There is a Homie head for Sharp and Lin.
    We may see them in ETD.
    452, 2013-09-18T17:08:52Z
    There are 51 audio logs in the game. 3 from each of these characters:
    • Viola
    • Tanya
    • Shaundi (SR3)
    • Shaundi (SR2)
    • Sharp
    • Pierce
    • Matt
    • Maero
    • Lin
    • Kinzie
    • Ben King
    • Keith
    • Julius
    • Gat
    • Donnie
    • Cyrus
    • Asha
    Proof ( forum)
    452, 2013-08-12T18:01:19Z (last edited: 452, 2013-08-13T17:45:19Z)
    Bullshit there is 39, 2013-08-13T00:53:18Z
    Thanks for your input,, but since I've listened to all 51, I'm going to go with the evidence I have in front of me, instead of some random anon.
    452, 2013-08-13T01:02:34Z
    Idol ninja said there was 39 how do you know this stuff?, 2013-08-13T02:10:38Z
    Isn't that the guy who said that there was no Unlockable Pack? And who more recently said that Male Voice 2 in SRIV is British?
    (The Inauguration Station proves that Male Voice 2 is African American and Male Voice 3 is British.)
    I'm actually as surprised as you are, especially since
    Image{{ref|image=Challenge 61 Audio Logs Collected.jpg|This image of the Challenge screen]] says there are 39.
    If you recall, there are only 31 Challenges available at the start of Saints Row: The Third, with more becoming unlocked after The Belgian Problem, Return to Steelport, and Gang Bang: with a grand total of 41.
    So, I'm guessing that there are 39 before a certain point in the game. In fact, at the start of the game, there are probably 0. Then as you rescue each Homie, or progress through the game, more audio logs become available.
    There's some spoilerrific stuff in Keith David's Audio logs which indicate that he's going to betray you in the game because he wants to become president himself, so they probably aren't available until afterwards. Oops: Spoiler Alert.
    452, 2013-08-13T02:17:15Z (last edited: 452, 2014-05-23T14:27:17Z)
    Did you play Saints 4 already is Dex or Troy present?
    Mariosonicmania1, 2013-08-13T02:25:18Z
    I think you overrode the Anon with a monstertruck of info.
    Also: Damnit, I did not want to know the last part.
    The Supreme Diamond-Hooded Eagle, 2013-08-13T07:26:06Z (last edited: The Supreme Diamond-Hooded Eagle, 2013-08-13T07:26:42Z)
    I highly doubt Keith David will betray the Saints he has sidequests which probably means we will be able to do them after the campaign
    Mariosonicmania1, 2013-08-13T20:12:03Z
    FFUUUCK, why did I read that last part!?
    Moozipan Cheese, 2013-08-15T16:51:28Z
    If you want to avoid spoilers don't read a blog titled "Saints Row IV facts". :P
    Anyway, it might not be true. But it's an educated guess.
    452, 2013-08-15T17:01:27Z
    This could be actually true. If you complete "All Hands On Deck" you will get "Betrayed" achievement and also, you don't have to do his Loyalty Mission and Romance.
    WildBrick142, 2013-08-15T20:39:54Z
    Yes, that's what makes the guess "educated". :P
    452, 2013-08-15T20:42:23Z
    "I highly doubt Keith David will betray the Saints"
    I was also right with:
    "In fact, at the start of the game, there are probably 0. Then as you rescue each Homie, or progress through the game, more audio logs become available."
    Although it's never explicitly mentioned, the audio logs do not appear in the city until you unlock that person as a homie. Keith David's audio logs ARE available before he betrays you, so my guess that they wouldn't be available until afterwards was wrong, however.
    My guesses are sometimes wrong. But when I say something is a fact, it's normally right.
    452, 2013-09-18T16:30:02Z (last edited: 452, 2016-03-27T12:46:16Z)
    usingwhs - "Saints Row IV All New Gameplay - Some of the Cars" (6m30s) shows that approaching a "Death Tag" activity marker in single player prompts you to start a co-op game.
    What is currently unknown at this point is whether "Death Tag" activities unlock City Takeover territory. If it does, then it will be impossible to complete City Takeover in single player.
    Hopefully Volition aren't that stupid.
    edit: Good News! Death Tag and Cat and Mouse are not tied to territories.
    Incidentally, you can skip the rest of that video, as it shows absolutely nothing new. But proves yet again that review copies are wasted on idiots.
    edit: I spoke too soon, he eventually gets on a Pulse. Not really news here, but it's absolute proof that we didn't have before.
    452, 2013-08-13T16:01:58Z (last edited: 452, 2013-09-18T16:40:17Z)
    Save Matt or Kill Yourself
    WildBrick142, 2013-08-15T17:35:09Z
    That doesn't seem like a "Fact". It seems like half of a sentence.
    452, 2013-08-15T17:38:56Z
    Jane Valderama will be a DJ for one of the stations according to IdolNinja's review
    Sirenixprime29, 2013-08-15T18:25:09Z
    We already knew that.
    452, 2013-08-15T18:49:40Z
    Enter the Dominatrix will feature a rideable homie in a raptor costume, which may or may not be named "Raptor Ned"
    Edit: I've broken my usual habit of saying "probably" and "looks like" and "it seems that".
    I'm going to go all-in and saying that it's absolutely going to happen. But the "Raptor Ned" name is still a "maybe".
    452, 2013-09-10T13:43:43Z (last edited: 452, 2013-09-18T17:10:49Z)
    Well, someone just edited his article to say he is in it, but without any proof, so I don't know if it's just someone who read this and doesn't know what they're talking about.
    edit: well, looks like I was right, how about that.
    452, 2013-10-18T11:54:06Z (last edited: 452, 2013-11-05T01:04:17Z)
    "There are 32 Targets in total, as well as 32 activities, 34 stores, and 10 Cribs." 
    I thought there were no cribs in SR4?, 2013-09-23T09:32:56Z
    "I thought there were no cribs in SR4?"
    I'm sure Gateways are Cribs, thus you can have 10 Gateways.
    TheMoonLightman, 2013-09-23T09:54:38Z
    i wish stilwater was in saints row 4.
    Awesomediamond92, 2013-10-07T03:00:13Z HAWP dlc?
    Homie ashly burch HAWP.png Ash Homie anthony burch HAWP.png Anthony Homie papa burch HAWP.png Papa
    Also: Ui element sm explode.png - new "explode" element for TK, Stomp, Blast and Buff, apparently.
    452, 2013-11-05T01:03:11Z (last edited: 452, 2013-11-05T01:14:51Z)
    452, 2013-12-03T20:56:25Z
    • Warped Weapon (Pack?)
      • "Put the principles of mutual attraction and repulsion to work for you!"
      • "Collect enemies and objects with magnetic force, then fling them every which-a-way."
      • Warps space to leave your enemies helplessly flailing.?
      • Look what a little old 'merican ingenuity (and some moonshine-induced hallucinations) dreamed up!
    Ui element sm bling.png
      • "Money is your mana! Find new uses for cash (and new ways to earn it) with your superpowers!"
      • Shake down your targets, using this power to suck cache from their pocket to yours!
      • Make it rain! Money drops from the sky, distracting citizens and foes alike. Costs cache to use.
      • Gain the Midas touch! Enemies killed while buff is active drop more cache, and nearby enemies actually get turned to gold!
      • Fires a powerful blast with superior damage and recharge, with one catch - it costs cache to use it.
    452, 2013-12-16T00:07:36Z (last edited: 452, 2013-12-16T00:35:31Z)
    The independence day trailer shows a very misleading independence-day-movie-like shot of a VOID approaching the mothership above Steelport.
    They specifically made it look like we would interact with it somehow.
    452, 2014-03-21T14:00:00Z
    Allegedly, there's a "Game of the Century Edition" coming out containing "all the DLCs".
    "Apart from the main game, the Game of the Century Edition contains all the DLCs! Commander-in-Chief pack, online pass, Volition Comics Pack, Saints Row IV Season Pass, The Rectifier, Executive Privilege Pack, Brady Games Pack, Grassroots Pack, Presidential Pack, Dubstep Gun (Remix) Pack, Wild West Pack, GAT V Pack, Enter The Dominatrix, The Super Saints Pack, Pirate's Booty Pack, Thank You Pack, Element of Destruction Pack, Zinyak Attack Pack, Hey Ash, Whatcha Playin '? Pack, How the Saints Save Christmas, Anime Pack, Stone Age Pack, Bling Bling Pack, Reverse Cosplay Pack, GameStop Warped Weapon Challenge, Game On, College Daze and 'Merica Gun."
    However, since I bought the "Commander-in-Chief" edition, which did not contain the "Commander-in-Chief pack", I'll believe it when it has been confirmed.
    Additionally, The Full Package did not contain all the DLC for SRTT, which makes me doubt that this edition will actually include all DLC for SRIV. In fact, the Child's Play Pack isn't even in the list.
    And last time I checked, "Commander-in-Chief" and "'Merica Gun" were not separate DLCs, which makes that description very suspicious. And the "Saints Row IV Season Pass" has nothing which isn't in the list separately.
    This has allegedly been confirmed, but I have seen no proof.
    452, 2014-04-03T23:56:10Z (last edited: 452, 2014-04-04T23:14:46Z)
    Londän lääs lef kind:  http://pfxd//wpts/122/
    Sitting, 2014-06-09T11:06:04Z
    The PAX demo clearly shows "Right Stick to Rotate" in the Friendly Fire menu, and Jim Boone rotates the RPG.
    I just double checked, and this isn't possible in the released game.
    452, 2014-12-16T00:48:27Z
    Stations Mixtape.png
    "Complex" is a piece of shit website which can apparently not be relied upon for accurate information.
    It names the station as "103.6 Four20", but in-game, it is "Four 20 103.6".
    Furthermore, it is not named "103.6 Four20" in any game.
    452, 2015-03-07T04:37:30Z (last edited: 452, 2015-03-07T04:37:51Z)