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Posted by 452

Update: New forums have now been disabled. Comments have been enabled for the existing forum.

Read below for details.

I'm excited about the prospect of new forums, since the old ones were confusing and sloppy at best.

They're probably going to become mandatory at some point in the future, so we might as well adopt them early. 452, 2012-11-29T22:48:40Z
(last edited: 452, 2013-03-10T19:29:21Z)

What are "topics" and how do they work?
Edit: the answer is in the FAQ!
"Topic" means "Related Article"
452, 2012-11-29T22:49:30Z
(last edited: 452, 2012-11-30T02:01:44Z)
I genuinely like how there's a button linking to the forums at the bottom of each article now.
Moozipan Cheese, 2012-12-01T01:29:23Z
I expect that that means these forums will eventually replace talk pages (and article comments, which already replace talk pages)
Feel free to add an article as a topic so you can see how it looks at the bottom of articles.
452, 2012-12-01T01:46:06Z
(last edited: 452, 2012-12-01T01:46:55Z)
And should I take it as read that you agree with keeping the new forums enabled?
452, 2012-12-01T15:39:43Z
Yes, absolutely!
Moozipan Cheese, 2012-12-06T21:30:34Z
As you might have guessed from Forum:DPL comment test, I'm looking for an alternate solution due to all the problems with the new forum.
At this point I'd like to disable the new forums, mostly because it's impossible to move pages into the new forum and impossible to redirect to posts in the new forum (Special:BrokenRedirects). Wikia Staff have also shown no interest in my request for a way to manually move pages from the old forum into the new one.  (Unlike Blog posts, which are just normal pages, moving pages to the Board_Forum namespace doesn't work.  Check out Special:Log/move since the 30th for all my attempts.)
Anyway, after working on Forum:DPL comment test for a few hundred edits, I've found out that the Article Comments feature can be enabled for namespaces other than Main, so all along we could have had it enabled for the Forum namespace! It didn't even occur to me until now to ask about it...
I'm double checking that it's actually possible to have it enabled for Forum but not Main, and then I'm going to ask them to do that here.
In the long term, Wikia may make the new forum mandatory, but hopefully they'll finish it by then.
But if you're already attached to the new forum, we can keep it enabled if you want.
See here for pages upon pages detailing the problems, and let me know what you think.
edit: Also why I want to turn it off so soon as I main a huge mistake enabling Message Wall so soon, and it was months before I realised that Wikia wasn't interested in fixing all the problems I was reporting in a timely manner. Things I brought up in January still haven't been fixed (See Special:WantedPages for an extant example.)
By the time I realised we'd be better off without Message Wall, there were far too many conversations to make disappear, so I don't want to make the same mistake with the forum and in 2 months have a bunch of new forum posts with all the day 1 problems still occurring.
452, 2012-12-06T21:47:36Z
(last edited: 452, 2016-11-03T19:54:46Z)
I've heard back, it is possible to have it enabled for the Forum namespace but not Main, and they are willing to do it. (Although they did ask why I didn't just use the new forum, which I explained at length.)
452, 2012-12-07T17:45:31Z
(last edited: 452, 2012-12-07T18:11:58Z)
I was unaware it had these problems. I wouldn't say I'm particularly attached to the forums - I think they're a nice idea but if you think they should be removed until Wikia hopefully fixes them (or makes them mandatory) then I'm okay with that.
Moozipan Cheese, 2012-12-08T00:19:52Z
What do you think about Forum:DPL comment test?
How it works is... well, applied magic using DPL. Comments are created as subpages, and are subpages are automatically transcluded. (I need to do a little more work to make it easier to use, but it's functional right now)
The only difficulty I ran into was that I cannot do "replies to comments" that message walls and blog posts have - but I only just noticed that these forums only have a single level of replies anyway, so it doesn't really matter.
At this point, I think that my forum solution works even better than enabling article comments on the forum namespace.
The biggest downside that it has is that because they're new subpages - you don't get notifications. Luckily, I've already thought of a solution: When you follow categories, you get notified when new pages are added, so if I automatically add a category (Likely "Category:Forum comment") then following that category will send a notification when a reply is added - of course, it's not as specific as the current notifications.
Again, I'm going to leave it up to you. I don't really care about specific notifications myself, I think a notification email that there is a new comment should be enough.
452, 2012-12-08T01:15:52Z
(last edited: 452, 2014-12-18T17:29:20Z)
Oh, and if you really like the "Related discussions" module - we can implement that manually.  I can make a pair special template for related discussions that we can use to recreate the same thing.
  • One template to go into forum posts, which has an article name as a parameter
  • One template to put at the bottom of an article - which automatically lists forum posts referencing it using the other template.
Again, the technical details are magic via DPL, but the result is a list of "Related discussions" shown at the bottom of articles.
We can use the same thing to highlight active talk page discussions at the bottom of articles as well - which I think may be more useful than Category:Active Discussions, since I don't think many people are using it.
452, 2012-12-08T01:23:42Z
(last edited: 452, 2012-12-08T01:26:30Z)
Dammit, my latest comment disappeared.
Short version: I tested Article Comments in the Forum namespace, and it works as expected, including the ability to move Forum posts with comments to the User_blog namespace, and have comments intact.
This means if we enable Article Comments for the old forum now, if they make the new forum mandatory later, we can just move the old forum posts to the user_blog namespace. 
While my DPL forum solution is a great example of what can be done, I think we should just use Article Comments with the old forum for now. And I'll whip up a manual "Related Discussions" module so we can highlight discussions.
The one thing that can be done with my DPL forum which can't be done with Article Comments or User Blogs is moving comments. I can convert all the existing forum posts into DPL forum comment subpages, but I can't convert them to Article Comments. (They would just stay in the forum page as they are now)
452, 2012-12-08T01:36:47Z
(last edited: 452, 2012-12-08T01:44:19Z)
ALRIGHT, LET'S DO IT! WHOO!
I'll, er, leave you to do it all then, seeing as I have no clue as to what to do.
Moozipan Cheese, 2012-12-09T12:59:48Z
Ok, I've put in the request, and have highlighted this topic so everyone knows.
452, 2012-12-09T16:40:00Z
Ok, {{Discuss}} works - I'm going to merge it with Template:Talk, since it is very similar. Template:Talk will still work (for now), but I'll eventually replace all instances and remove the template.
Category:Active Talk Pages will be replaced with Category:Active Discussions.
452, 2012-12-09T20:57:26Z
(last edited: 452, 2013-02-06T16:29:24Z)
Done, done and done.
Curiously, these threads are still accessible, and usable, but replies are not appearing in RecentChanges.
452, 2012-12-10T17:59:47Z
I just discovered that leaving an "Article Comment" doesn't send a notification to users following the page.
There's no use in a forum which doesn't sent notifications of replies, so it looks like Article Comments in the forum namespace is a bust.
Next step:  moving the Forum to User_blog - which does send notifications for comments.
Everything will work the same, except instead of a Forum page being created, it will be a User_blog page.
edit: Article Comments are supposed to send notifications, Wikia fixed the problem after I reported it.
452, 2012-12-11T17:38:51Z
(last edited: 452, 2014-03-18T17:28:23Z)
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